MD and Chef Team - The Show!

Coach Jon McLernon / Between the Before and After

July 27, 2022 Dr. Isabel MD & Culinary Nutrition Expert Chef Michael Season 3 Episode 16
MD and Chef Team - The Show!
Coach Jon McLernon / Between the Before and After
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode Dr. Isabel MD interviews Coach Jon, and what a Story!

✅  Jon survived an attempted murder (nearly beaten to death in South Africa) as well as losing his life savings in a failed business venture, and he rebuilt himself from the ground up.

He has lost and kept off over 100lbs after many failed attempts. Jon used to suffer from multiple anxiety episodes per day, and now has less than 2 notable episodes per year, after some dramatic lifestyle changes.

✅  He has an extremely diverse background, from nanotechnology research chemist (University of Victoria), to Navy marine Engineer (Canada), to globetrotting nomad (45 countries on 5 continents), to powerline technician, to Oilfield Heavy Equipment Operator, to Nutrition and Supplement store owner.

And Jon is also a new dad, learning how to manage running a business, keeping a 15 year international marriage going, and figuring out how to raise a little human.

✅  With Freedom Nutrition Coaching Coach Jon marries the Science of Metabolism with the Psychology of Behavior Change and the Compassion of Human Connection to create life-changing transformations with his clients.

⏬    Download and Listen to the Full Story 🌻   

➥  For  the "Between the Before and After Podcast."

➥  Where listeners can find Coach Jon and his Team.

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Speaker 0 (0s): Coming up on this episode of the MD and shift team show, 

Speaker 1 (8s): We'll drive right into that tree. So that stays with me. It's like, don't look at the tree when you're turning a corner because you're driving right into that tree. And he, you know, the mind, the mind is wrong. It's so, you know, being in medicine and doing what you do, like the placebo effect, like whenever medical research has done, they have to account for the placebo effect because the mind has that much of an impact on the body. It's not that exclusively. It can change things for you, but you don't just cite one example because I thought this was fascinating. They took two groups of people and one of them, they had physically do finger strengthening exercises, whatever that looks like, you know, maybe they had those gripper things. 

The other group, they had just visualize doing them. 

Speaker 0 (48s): Welcome to the show from the MDs 

Speaker 2 (51s): Team. 

Speaker 0 (52s): I'm Dr. Isabel medical doctor here at the MD and chef team. And who are you? 

Speaker 2 (57s): Chef? Michael <inaudible> nutrition experts. I'm the chef part of the kids. 

Speaker 0 (1m 1s): And what are we going to talk about bed? Now? I can see that cause he's my husband. 

Speaker 2 (1m 7s): We'll be talking about marriage, relationship, parenting intimacy. Talk about mindsets that success, overcoming depression, anxiety, I'll be getting into functional nutrition, recipes and tips from the kitchen. And we're going to both get into how to live a long, healthy, vibrant life. 

Speaker 0 (1m 24s): Yes. I love it. Our mission is to help you prevent and reverse disease and give you hope in the process. Oh yeah. We like to have fun 

Speaker 2 (1m 36s): On the show, 

Speaker 0 (1m 41s): Jonathan, how are you doing? 

Speaker 1 (1m 44s): I'm doing amazing. Actually. I've got all kinds of great energy. It's a beautiful day here. And so, yeah, I'm feeling fantastic 

Speaker 0 (1m 50s): Now. Where are you? You, you got the ocean. Are you in the Caribbean right now? By any chance? 

Speaker 1 (1m 55s): In my mind I am. But in reality, I'm on the prairies of Canada. I live about an hour east of the Rocky mountains. It's actually a really beautiful area. When you drive, you drive west, you hit all these beautiful teal colored glacial lakes, and these snowcap magnificent mountains and so on. And I think I take for granted that, you know, it'd be a lot like the south island in New Zealand actually. And I take for granted, this is my backyard. And you know, I've been to hundreds of times, but I'm trying now to appreciate it more as I, as I get older. 

Speaker 0 (2m 24s): Yes. And you've got a child 

Speaker 1 (2m 27s): I do. He's 14 months old as of yesterday from the time of recording this. And so he's, he is the world's cutest boy, no arguments on that one. He's he's, he doesn't sleep a whole lot. He's very active, but he wakes up every two hours, but he's so sweet that it's like hard to be annoyed with him. And so when, you know, last night it was, I think 10, 2 15, and I try to give my wife breaks, but he really is deeply connected to her, which I, you know, we just had mother's day recently as well at the time of recording this. And I cherish motherhood, you, but I was just holding him in my arms and just trying to appreciate, you know, this beautiful little life that man, he's not gonna be this small for very long. 

Like it just, it just goes so quickly. And so instead of being upset that I was awake at two 15 in the morning, trying to help him get back to sleep. I was just, you know, trying to cherish the moment of holding my son in my arms, because he's not a snuggler by day. He is a, he's a wraparound. And if I'm in your arms, I'm facing outward. So I can see everything happening with the world. And so I was like, at least I got to hold them in my arms and get to look at his beautiful face, like a little cherub as he's sleeping. Like it's just, it's the best thing in the world. Obviously. I love being a dad. 

Speaker 0 (3m 33s): You're a champion in my books because if you can do that at two 15 in the morning, high five 

Speaker 1 (3m 41s): There five, 

Speaker 0 (3m 43s): Five, Hey, Jonathan. How about if I introduce you to our listeners? Cause I haven't done that yet. 

Speaker 1 (3m 48s): I would love that because in my head I'm a legend in my own mind. So we might as well share it. Share the goodness with your listeners. 

Speaker 0 (3m 55s): All right. Hi everyone. I'm Dr. Isabel from the MD and chef team. I'm your host today. And today we have coach Jonathan. He is a weight loss coach and emotional eating expert who has lost over a hundred pounds from nanotechnology research. Now that means he used to be an inorganic chemist and they do nanotechnology to a Navy Marine engineer. 

Wow. To globe trotting, nomad coach. John spent most of his life running from his true calling until one question changed his life. Now he's on a mission to help others lose weight for good and leave those bop, bop diet in the rear view mirror, he, he put a bad word there. I don't need to say bad words with freedom, nutrition coaching. He marries the science of metabolism with psychology of behavior change and the compassion of human connection to create life-changing transformations with his clients. 

Oh, I love you, Jonathan. I love that you are helping the world be better. 

Speaker 1 (5m 12s): Well, and it's, it's born of my own struggle, you know, and I'm so grateful to get to do interviews like this because this is probably my hundred and 50th in, in the last 12 months. But I was really unclear in one sense of what I wanted to do. I like I knew I was in sense a weight-loss nutritionist, but I was like, there's more that I do. And when I come on and do interviews and people ask me questions and they draw out like, cause we take for granted what we do in our own life, because it's just our day-to-day life we just sort of. And so that really helped me clarify it to, you know, the science of metabolism, the psychology behavior change and the compassionate human connection. 

Those three elements together blended just make a remarkable change in people. And it's what I needed my own 

Speaker 0 (5m 52s): Stop right there. You said three big idea words. Can you, can you go, can you go bomb bomb, boom, only so that they, they land into our hearts. 

Speaker 1 (6m 5s): So the, the science of metabolism, because that matters. If we're dealing with weight loss, we do have to deal with the metabolism. Then we have the psychology of behavior change. So really starting to understand why we do what we do and to do it from a space without judgment, which is where the compassion piece comes in. So I like to say that compassion is not a get out of jail free card. What it is is it's, it's opening the door to us, viewing her behavior through with, with removing the lens of judgment. So now we can seek to understand instead of hide and conceal. 

And when we look to understand, now we can create change because in order to create change, we have to bring our behaviors into our conscious awareness. And that can be a really, really uncomfortable thing to do because we're going to see ourselves as we are. We're going to see your flaws. I call it Russel with her demons in the light. It's, it's not an, not a comfortable process, but when people are willing to step into that and they know that someone's there, that has their back. Now we can do this. And that's where the real change happens, 

Speaker 0 (7m 2s): Jonathan. Wow. That's deep, that's deep, you know, and that is so important to talk about. And so bridging over, can you tell us, how did you lose a hundred pounds and how long did it take and what caused you to say, that's it, this is not going to be my life anymore? 

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Well, I often, I often joke that I've lost like 600 pounds because I like lost and gained weight so many times over the course of my life. And I've come to the place where I recognized that now I have a chronic condition that I managed to the rest of my life. I call it making peace with my biological reality. So because I've been obese my life and I have not had a liposuction, all the fat cells that I created to be obese or they're on my body waiting to be refilled on a moment's notice. So that's the biological reality that I live with and for a long time, well, most of my, my life, I fought that, you know, I had the idea of the happily ever after, if I just do this for this stretch of time and lose the weight, then I'll be good. 

I didn't want to acknowledge that. No, this is a chronic condition that I must live with and manage for the rest of my life. Once I made peace with that, that was really key in being able to lose the weight and keep it off. Because I think when people ask the question, how did you lose a hundred pounds? What they're looking for is can you give me a template to follow? And if I follow your template that maybe this will work for me and truthfully that that won't necessarily work. What we can do is what are the principles. And if I can, you know, when I work with somebody, my thinking is this. I don't come in saying, I'm the guru, you're the dummy. I say, we're gonna work together on the tour guide, but this is your journey. 

So I'm going to put, put forward a principal and say, I would like you to implement this and then bring feedback to me. Does this work? How does it work? What does it trigger? What works for you? What doesn't and how do we adjust it? So I think what really predicts longterm success is, is like this ability to adjust. It's like a dial mindset versus a switch mindset. And so, yes, obviously we could look at the fundamentals of health lifestyle. So quality nutrition, mostly whole foods, hydration, sleep, stress management, and those are all we get all, you know, those are all big headings that could, you know, we could go into some detail. 

So we want to engineer that part of it. But we also, we also need to look a little bit further. It's like if knowledge, isn't the issue because we live in the age of Google, we have basically infinite knowledge. So there's this gap between knowing and doing, and that's the gap that we're trying to bridge because this was the thing that discouraged me the most. How can I know what I know I'm very educated and I can't seem to do it. That was the most frustrating thing. 

Speaker 0 (9m 34s): It is very frustrating. It is so frustrating. It's like, what is stopping me? 

Speaker 1 (9m 40s): And, and, and you know, it, I mean, like I never knew that it had things to do with like my perspective on masculinity and what that actually is. Like, you think like, what on earth does that have to do with weight loss, compassion? Self-love what like, and, and as a male, like talking about this, are you kidding? Like, I didn't grow up. Like I love my dad. My dad's a, he's a great grandfather to my grandson. Like, it's just beautiful to see, but we didn't grow up talking about self love or self-compassion. So I didn't know what that was. So, you know, I mentioned in the introduction, there was a question that changed my life and, and maybe, maybe I'll scratch that itch or early on. 

So I, I hired a coach. I actually had tried hiring coaches. It failed multiple times and I was really, I was ready to give up. I was like, I'm a hopeless case. Nobody seems to know what's wrong with me. Nobody seems to be able to help me information. Isn't helping me. I'm just going to be fat for the rest of my life. That's the place I got to. So kind of as a last ditch effort, I was who came the hire this coach he's in his forties, but he's, he's, he's Jack, he's healthy. He's looks physically strong. I think, you know, maybe this guy can help. Now. I still thought that he was gonna give me a meal plan and macros, but he was going to have some sort of magical combination of these things. 

Cause I'm a former engineer. So I like to engineer tinker variable. So I thought he's going to give me the plan that the missing variables while he did, but they were not what I thought. So one day he said, Jonathan, I have a question for you. I said, if you make a list of all the things you love and value, how far down that list do I go before I see your name? 

Speaker 0 (11m 7s): Oh, John. And then let me see you get a big clap for that one. That is number one. 

Speaker 1 (11m 19s): Well, and, and really coach Scott gets the credit for it. I still, to this day, five, six years later, reach out to him and say, thank you. And he actually sent me a video message for my 40th birthday. And we hadn't communicated for over a year, but that question stopped me cold because it wasn't that I was near the bottom of the list. It was, I was not on the list. So now I had to confront this kind of this reality that I did not believe that I was worthy of my own self love and care. Where did that come from? How did I get to that place? Because until I corrected that, like nothing else was going to fall into place. 

So now you go, well, gosh, now that I've had this moment of shock, basically that I, I, I don't even love and care about myself. I think I'm almost like worthless. How do I learn? Self-love you know, what, what does that even look like when I've never talked about it? And what does it look like for, you know, because men don't talk about this stuff. And so it actually began with something really simple. It, you know, I, I sometimes, like I say simple, but it's not as easy, but I look back sometimes I'm kind of like, oh my gosh, why didn't I see this? But we don't know what we don't know. So it started with brushing my teeth. 

So brushing my teeth as an act of self care, every time he did that, I was saying, I am worthy of self care. And so it became the thing that I did first thing in the morning. First thing I did when I woke up was brush my teeth and I think most will do this anyways, but it became, it took on a different meaning because I think if I want to change a belief, I have to take an action contrary to the current belief that I hold. But if I make it too big, my emotional brick wall is going to go up. My, my brain's going to try and defend and hold my position. 

So it has to slip in under the radar. So brushing my teeth was safe. It was safe, a safe act of self care that really didn't confront my vision of what masculinity was. And then we just kind of built on that. And that was okay. Now I'm going to drink a glass of water. You're going to hydrate. And everything took was done through the lens of self care until eventually I started to realize that I'm actually worthy of love and care that everybody in my life benefits when I nurture and nourish myself, 

Speaker 0 (13m 25s): Drop the mic. 

Speaker 1 (13m 28s): Yeah. 

Speaker 0 (13m 30s): It's that? Yeah. So where, okay, so now my next question, if that's okay, and if this is too much, you just say, can't do that. Okay. So where did you learn that you weren't worthy? What happened? What did you go in deeper? Like where is this coming from? 

Speaker 1 (13m 49s): Well, here's what I I've sort of pieced together. Cause then I don't know that I have a definitive answer, but I, so my grandfather was a world war II veteran and he was captured by the Germans he's from New Zealand, but he was caught by the Germans in north Africa and, and a prisoner of war for a couple of years of the Germans. And obviously that, that severely damaged him and, and just the horrors of war let alone. So he married and fathered children out of a sense of duty. That's what it meant a man did. And that, so that's what he did, but he didn't do it because he wanted to be a father loved kids. 

And so he didn't show my dad or his brothers, any kind of fatherly love. It was just criticism and do what you're told and get a smack upside the head, if it's your good, you know, that that was how they were raised. And so my dad never really grew up knowing, knowing what sort of the love of father is now. He didn't want to follow in his father's footsteps, but he didn't really know what to do cause he'd never had that pattern. And so I think my dad for all of his life was really hard on himself. 

And my dad is so intelligent, like a genius level intellect. Like he's a walking encyclopedia, even, even in his seventies. Like, and in fact, we joke because he had an encyclopedia set that he used to just read, like that's the sort of brain that he has. And he could sit down and play the piano and play like Rachmaninoff and this classical music just from memory, but that was never nurtured. Like, so that sort of, I look at these gifts that he has and like, and, and you, you know, that was never nurtured and the things that he could have potentially done. So he never really knew how to show us how to like love and care for ourselves. 

Now, he was very much, I would say his language of love if we were to use that analogy or that perspective was acts of service. So caring for other people, doing things to serve other people. So I never really had this idea of what self love looked like ultimately. And so, so, and then you think about how society sort of conditioned men to be, you know, you're either Homer Simpson or you're Rambo. Like that was, I grew up with like in the 1980s and 1990s, that's what it was like. You're either this hyper masculine, super muscular like invincible superhero of a man, or you're this fat lovable doofus, who's kind of a hopeless failure. 

There was no, there was what else is held up for us to sort of aspire to, and neither of those are realistic or ideal. And so that's kind of where I pieced together. And then, and then think what, how we're taught like emotions are not a good thing for men. We don't show emotions, emotions are weakness and so on. And if anybody sees you cry, beat unit, be ashamed of that. And I'm an empath. So I used to have a lot of temperatures. 

Speaker 0 (16m 19s): It would be, you're going to be a great, you are a great dad. 

Speaker 1 (16m 22s): Well, thank you. Yeah, it's amazing. Oh, we'll touch on that in a moment, but I just think so. I used to have temper tantrums as a kid and I got into a lot of fights because I would just like blow my top. But what I didn't realize, I didn't know. I didn't have any language to sort of describe it. It's only in recent years that I talk about being an empath, but I would feel other people's energy and I would take on their emotions and, and I would get so wound up that it had to come up somehow. And so it would just come out in this temper tantrum, whether it was getting into a fight with somebody or punching a hole in the wall that these emotions had to be expressed. And that was how I got them out of my body, I guess, in a sense. 

But then I learned how to hide them in a suppress them because I was like, well, this isn't, I don't want to go through life getting into fights because the irony is I get into a fight with a kid and I'd go home and cry because it hurts somebody like either win or lose. Like back back when we got into fights as kids, it was like, if the kid got knocked down, look at the fights over, like there was none of this, you know, there was this weird sort of code of conduct we used to have around getting into fights. Okay, you knocked down, I win, you lose. We're done. You know, we might even shake hands and go, okay, that's it, you know, beef settled, but I would go home and cry afterwards because I, I felt it in my heart that I'd hurt somebody. 

And, and, but I would hide that. I would, I would like, you know, I didn't want anybody to see that this was happening because I was like, well, what are people gonna think if they knew that like, this is actually who I am. So we put on the, kind of this tough exterior I put on this sort of tough exterior, you know, I, I got into like motorcycle racing and powerlifting and listening to heavy metal and, and all this kind of, sort of hyper-masculine type behavior because I thought, well, this is how I need to present to the world. And the irony is like, I'm just a big Teddy bear who has an incredible heart of love for people. And it turns out that I can still be a strong masculine man and have a heart of love and caring for people. 

Like the two are not incompatible. So, but it took me almost 40 years to figure that out. 

Speaker 0 (18m 14s): Oh gosh, I just love you. Listen, I'm an empath too. I used to throw temper tantrums. You're speaking to your sister from a different mother. So how, how do you, how did you come to terms now with the fact that you are an empath and how are you doing that positively because your son is watching and he may grow up to be an empath and there are other empathic men out there so positively. 

What have you had to learn? Like what shifted, what did you, did you deal 

Speaker 1 (18m 52s): Well? Okay, so there, there's a part of my story and if it's a value, we can share more of it. But I went through trauma, but 11 years ago, so living in South Africa, I was attacked and I wasn't really mentally prepared to go through that. So that really was the start of it all. And, and I look back, I'm actually grateful for that experience. So I was nearly beaten to death by four men and nothing in life, sort of prepares you to go through that level of trauma, that sort of violent act and people, men smiling as they're stomping and kicking you and beating you and whatnot. Wow. So that's, I fell into binge eating and food addiction as a way to try to cope, basically, because I didn't know what, now my emotions are an overdrive. 

So I'm already an empath. That's gone through this trauma that's, you know, and it was just, it was out of control. 

Speaker 0 (19m 32s): It was you didn't, there was no re they just happened. 

Speaker 1 (19m 36s): Well, th there's a bit of a backstory. So we were in South Africa, living on a nature reserve, teaching underprivileged youth life skills. So working on their employability, particularly in the realm of hospitality. And so we'd bring them out to this location, this beautiful location. We teach them, we'd set up this, the education center, like a restaurant and teach them all the different positions around it. We do team building this, this amazing work that we did. I loved it. But one night I was walking back to the cabin. So there's an instructor's cabinets, probably a few hundred feet or a hundred meters away from where the other, the main building was. And it was at night and the cabinets tucked off to the side and the bushes. And I went back in there, the door was a jar and there was three guys in there. 

And there's a fourth guy outside that I didn't see who smashed me across the head with a rock. And then they jumped out and I got smashed across the head again and fell over. And then they just started beating on me. And yeah, I know. I didn't know them 

Speaker 0 (20m 22s): Well, 

Speaker 1 (20m 23s): How they got onto a nature reserve. That's 45 minutes from a city and, and into this and knew that I was there. Well, one of the guys, I'm pretty sure it was a ranger, but he was not in uniform and so on. And so the way that South Africa works, like it's quite a violent place. It, it really isn't, it's a traumatized society. Really. That's part of the reason for this. And so they would have known there's white people out there. So part of it was to Rob, but also part of it was to actually inflict violence. I say that I was a representation, something they felt had historically oppressed them. So it had nothing to do with me, Jonathan. 

Right. It was, it was mirror that I was a representation of something. And so they, this is what they do. And they actually beat a man to death the night before they, they did the same thing. And so I was by the grace of God, I'm alive. You know? I mean, how do you get the strength after, when you smashed over the head with a rock multiple times to get up and at least fight them off enough to break free and get over to where some help is, you know? Wow. So, yeah, that was, so now these emotions are all out of control as I'm like, I don't even know what to do. You know, I'm just overwhelmed on a daily basis with, and, and I knew that like, like th there was anger and there's serious rage, and like, I wanted to be violent towards, I just didn't say a one or two. 

I had thoughts of like violent vengeance, you know, coming in and intrusive thoughts every day. And it was really, really hard because I still knew that I wasn't this violent person. And yet my brain was starting to entertain these really, really violent thoughts. And it, to the point where I was like, cause we lived in South Africa for another four months after this happened and our host kept getting broken into. And I was like, man, I want to set traps. I want them to break in. I want to catch some of this trap and I'm going to have the power this time. And when I knew that that was starting to run through my head, I knew like we have to get out of here because one way or another something really bad is going to happen to either to me or to somebody else. 

And either way, I'm an horribly regret it. And so we went back to Australia where my wife is from, and it worked on a cotton farm in like rural Australia. Like the nearest town was like 30 miles away and had like 500 people in it. So as rural as you can get, and it probably took a month after that, for me to realize that I can sleep at night and there wasn't somebody trying to break in, there's nobody coming for me, you know, but it was about eight months after the incident happened. Maybe that the first stage of healing started. 

So I got exhausted from just being enraged all the time. And obviously it was really hard to live with. I was not an easy person to live with. My wife were together 17 years now. I mean, she's incredible. She's, she's been by my side through all of this and, but I wasn't, I wasn't easy to be with. So we went back to Turkey, into, to live with my brother who lives in Istanbul. And one night I just, I couldn't sleep. And I was like, I have to, I have to tell somebody my story. I just can't keep all of this because we had just told this story of like, you know, I kind of got attacked or whatever, and you know, but I'm okay. 

And blah, blah, blah. I didn't want to tell people what had actually happened. You know, for shame. I didn't want to scare people, whatever the reality was, then, you know, they beat me to death. And so I felt like I had to write to this one friend and told him this story. And it just, it was really the first part of kind of getting it off my chest and being like, in that moment, like I realized I can't die tonight because I felt like, so I believe that God brought me through this experience, but I felt like I can't die tonight because my relationship with God, I, I thought about those words to, I think it's to Belshazzar, are you going to wait in the balances and found wanting? 

So it was like in the moment of truth, when I was faced with my own mortality and possibly dying night, I was like, oh, like, I, I call them, I call myself a cerebral Christian where it's like, I can quote versus I can talk about the Bible and I can sound like a really good Christian, but it's like your heart isn't in this. Yeah. And so God showed me that in this experience. And so now I realized that if I'm going to break free from this, actually I have to forgive these men. 

Speaker 0 (24m 8s): I was going to ask you that. But I thought that was such the wrong timing. So I was told not now don't ask that question now, forgiveness, glad you brought it up. 

Speaker 1 (24m 20s): Yeah. 

Speaker 0 (24m 21s): Because that's part of your healing, right? 

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): Yeah. And the question is like, you know, I made the decision to forgive after this email. And I heard back from this friend and I was like, I have to forgive these men. That's like the only way forward, but how do you do that now? So I, you know, cause again, I had read about forgiveness in the Bible and this is what it talks about and this is what you're supposed to do. But how do you forgive men that tried to kill me? And it would kill me again if they saw me, you know, that was, that was a challenge. Cause it was, I wish it was in one sense. I say, I wish it was easy as just saying, I forgive you and I was free. And it wasn't, there was a whole process to go through. 

But in short, what it sort of boiled down to was I had asked the question, what happened to them? So what happened in their life that got them to this place where this is what they're doing, you know, because they don't believe they were born violent murderers. 

Speaker 0 (25m 9s): So 

Speaker 1 (25m 10s): How did they get there? And I don't know the answer to that question, but at least if I understood that something, you know, if they were, if they grew up in Canada, the way that I did, they probably would be an entirely different paths in life. And so every time that I felt the anger, the rage coming up, I tried to cultivate this sense of compassion for them not to excuse what they did or to absolve them the way they did, but to re recognize that that this was outside of my control. And I realized that not only like it wasn't just that, like, I forgive you, but I hope God's might see you. That's not forgiveness because I'm still holding something in 

Speaker 0 (25m 41s): My heart. 

Speaker 1 (25m 42s): But it was like, I want God to forgive you too, because I don't know what happened to you and how you got there. And so it took a number of months to really get to the place where I could sort of feel free from it. But the, the next challenge was I kind of fell into this pattern of self-loathing and self-hatred so I could forgive them, but I still hadn't at this point in my life, I hadn't yet bridged the gap into like self-love what does that look like? So I started to feel very ashamed while I was already very ashamed that I was obese and I used to be an athlete. And so I had this image of what I used to look like. 

And it felt like this athlete that was trapped in a fat body and that my body had somehow betrayed me and let me down. So I became very angry at my own body. And I would sometimes eat out of spite to like punish my body for, for, for, for letting me down. And so it was this really difficult place to be. So then dieting was a way to try and punish my body as well. I'm going to starve you into submission, you know, still coming from this angry place, I'm not going to force you to lose weight. Cause you, you know, this stupid body won't do what I want it to do. And I had much stronger language than that, but we won't, we won't go into, 

Speaker 0 (26m 45s): I won't need to share that, you know, the world's already hears enough of that stuff. 

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): They do. They do. And really this is a story of hope, but it was one that coach my coach, Scott asked me that question and really nobody had ever offered me this idea that I was allowed to love myself. Now I probably probably also thought that self-love meant self absorption or you know, some kind of conceit or arrogance. And it's funny because like, I think like the, about the furthest thing, like people who are worried about being arrogant are probably the furthest thing from ever like, you know, at risk of ever being arrogant. 

If that, 

Speaker 0 (27m 24s): Yeah, no, we're not talking about that. We're talking about loving yourself so that you can love others because if you don't love yourself, you cannot love others. If you hate yourself, all you know is to hate others and to be critical and judgmental. And 

Speaker 1 (27m 38s): Because we take, I was taking how I saw myself projecting that onto other people and assuming that they saw me the same way and that colored every relationship I had as well, it just created this incredible tension in relationships. I mean, I was the jolly fat guy. I was, you know, Hey, I was fun at a party, encouraging everyone to indulge in overeat and all that to sort of cover up for my own overeating behaviors and you know, but at home I was, I was miserable and I was frustrated and I didn't, but I didn't know what to do. I think this is where a lot of people still find themselves as like, I don't even know what to do. 

I didn't know where to start. I don't even know how to start. 

Speaker 0 (28m 12s): Yeah. So as an empath, try expressing yourself positively, you went on a journey to figure out what to do. So how, what you know. 

Speaker 1 (28m 21s): And so yeah, we talked about sort of the self-love and the kind of the steps that I took to cultivate self love. And, and I say in a very safe way, and the reason I use the word safe is because the way that our brain works is if we try to create change, that's too much of a departure from who we presently see ourselves to be, our brain will inherently put up a resistance. It's a, it's sort of a primal biological safety mechanism. And so the way that we would like change to happen is, you know, we create a picture in a head of who we want to be in. A brain gets excited when it thinks about that picture, that's amazing. It starts to reward us with dopamine and it feels really good. 

And I think that surge in dopamine actually gets us over our fear or resistance of change, but we mistake that for motivation and we go really, really hard until your brain goes, I can't keep you high all the time. So we've got to dial this back down to normal again. And then you feel like I've lost all motivation and so on. And so I had to learn, you know, well, how do I, how do I do this when I don't feel motivated? How w what does that look like? Because the truth is like, even today, like not necessarily today, but to this day, it's not like I feel motivated every single day. 

Speaker 0 (29m 22s): No, 

Speaker 1 (29m 23s): But 

Speaker 0 (29m 23s): It's a decision you have to make every day, 

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): You know? And I think we got maybe as a culture, we kind of got hooked on sort of motivational videos and inspirational speeches and things like that. And this idea that there's this endless well of motivation. I'm like, well, there's not, but I will say that I have what I call my emotionally compelling reason. So, and that, and now it's my son. So he, he is like, I can hear him in the background. Actually. He is very talkative, which is hilarious because I can't yet understand what he says, but he waves his arms around, he talks and he's telling these great stories. 

And I just want to encourage, I just love it. I, I, you know, I cherish everything that he does right now. I mean, I think I always will, but it it's, but recognizing like, okay, I, I love him in a way that I didn't know a human being could love. And I think every parent probably feels that once they actually hold their own child there, especially the first one, it's like, you know, and I realize for him, I want to be in his life. I want to be present in his life, physically present. I want to be with him. I want to get on the floor and play with him. I want to, you know, be able to pick them up and scoop them up and wrestle with them and, and, and run after him and things like that. 

Well, if I'm going to be able to do that, I actually have to take care of my health. And so that means that we know when my brain still goes, Hey, you should get a big Mac, you know, or, Hey, you just drove past a pizza place. And they're three bucks a slice go and grab a slice. That those thoughts still enter my head all the time. And so I have to go, well, what's the trade off because if I choose that, what am I saying? If I say yes to that, what am I saying no to 

Speaker 0 (31m 1s): That's right. 

Speaker 1 (31m 2s): And, and it's this, I think breaking frequency idea that we can necessarily have it all. Now we can have the best, but we can't necessarily have it all in, in a sense that, well, I can't really eat donuts and pizza on a daily basis and expect to be fit and healthy and active and present my son's life. So I have to decide what means the most to me. And the reason I call it an emotionally compelling reason is because really our logical brain is overwritten by our emotions most of the time. And so logically and say, well, I don't want to have a heart attack and blah, blah, blah. 

But it's like, no, really what we, what I need is a reason that, like, when I think about the feeling that I get, when I hold my son in my arms and I go, that's why I do this. Okay. I'm willing to now be uncomfortable and sacrifice because of what I want to be for him. 

Speaker 0 (31m 50s): Amen. Absolutely. And, and I love that. You've got, you've gotten to that point. Do you know how many people aren't there and they haven't made their kids the priority? Like you're, you're making you the priority by making your child the priority. Do you know what I mean? 

Speaker 1 (32m 7s): Yeah. 

Speaker 0 (32m 8s): And holding that image, I always say to people, please hold the image of who and what you want to become and just hold it. Cause we always walked towards that image. 

Speaker 1 (32m 18s): Yeah. I love that. Cause we, we, I say that we, we steer towards what we focus on and, and there's a lesson from my dad when I was driving, learning how to drive. He's like, don't look at the tree when you're turning a corner, we'll drive right into that tree. So, so that stays with me. It's like, don't look at the tree when you're turning a corner because you're driving right into that tree. And he, you know, the mind, the mind is wrong. It's so, you know, being in medicine and doing what you do, like the placebo effect, like whenever medical research has done, they have to account for the placebo effect because the mind has that much of an impact on the body. 

It's not exclusively. It can change things for you, but you don't just cite one example because I thought this was fascinating. They took two groups of people and one of them, they had physically do finger strengthening exercises, whatever that looks like. You know, maybe they have those gripper things. The other group, they had just visualize doing them. And group one, they saw a 30% increase in finger strength. They're the ones that physically did the action group. Two who just sat in a chair, laid on a bed and visualize doing it. Had a 22% increase in strength just by picturing in their mind. 

Isn't that like? Isn't that like a, I mean, I was stunned. I was like, w I did not realize it could be that powerful, but then we recognize that that's a two-way street. So if your mind can be that powerful, positively, imagine what can happen if it goes in the wrong direction. 

Speaker 0 (33m 35s): Exactly. Exactly. Which is what your father says. If you focus on that tree, you're going to, if you focus on the tree, metaphorically in our life, the negative, then guess what? You will hit that. 

Speaker 1 (33m 48s): Yeah. Well, and, and I think we've been conditioned to fix everything that's wrong with us find, so our brains are hardwired to look for negativity right now. Again, this is a primal protective thing, you know, Hey, look, if we didn't have the electricity and internet and information and all that, you don't know what's on the next Savannah on the other side of that mountain or whatever. Okay. You need to be hunting for threats because it's a hostile world out there. So that's the brain that we have, but we don't live in that world. Now we live in the 21st century world, but our brain is still wired to look for negativity. And so if we can recognize that, well, what's the counter to that. 

And for me, it's gratitude. So I fear that sometimes it sounds cliche to talk about it really gratitude is teaching our brain to look for good things, teach your brain to look for what's good in your life and making that a practice. So it's me holding my son at two o'clock in the morning and then going, I'm so grateful to hold this precious little boy in my arms and just look at his beautiful little face as he falls asleep. And he's got complete trust in me. Like that sort of feeling versus I'm so annoyed that this stupid little human woke me up in the middle of the night. Right now, this isn't to shame anybody who, if that thought crosses your mind. 

Yeah. Right. Like admittedly, like when I'm kind of rolling out of bed and you're like, oh man, kid, why don't you just go to sleep? Like, I'm just so I just want sleep too. But like when I'm holding them arms and like, I don't want him to feel that I don't want him to feel that he is an inconvenience to me. I don't want him to feel that he is imposing on me. I want him to feel safe and secure in my arms. And so I kinda, you know, so yes, I have that first thought of like, I'm annoyed that it's two o'clock in the morning 

Speaker 0 (35m 18s): And you change it. But then you see you switch, you turn channels, you get your remote control in your mind and you change it. Yes. And that is that's work. That's a habit that you've learned to do when you're a, semi-comatose at two 15 in the morning. 

Speaker 1 (35m 34s): Right. It can, it, it goes to like the other, like the midbrain, the midbrain. 

Speaker 0 (35m 38s): Yeah. And we can learn those things, but it's a choice we have to make that choice. Something I always encourage people to do at the end of the day, go on a treasure hunt and just, just say, oh yeah, thank you. Well, I, because I believe in God, thank you, God that I had a hot cup of coffee and I got to be with my husband this morning, you know, just go through the day of all the beautiful things. Cause you know what happens when you're grateful, you get more. But when you're not grateful, you're not going to get more. 

Speaker 1 (36m 9s): I am. I'm so stealing that, like with all of my clients, go, go on a treasure hunt because I already have them practice gratitude. But I just, I love the idea of the end of day treasure hunt. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's something that like my wife and I try to do and I say, try and I'm like, yeah, I know. I, I don't like that word, but it's the way we it's the language we use when we're like hedging going like, okay, I could probably do better at this. 

Speaker 0 (36m 33s): We can all do better. 

Speaker 1 (36m 34s): But you know, there, there's something about like, look I'm Christian as well. And like have said, maybe in the past I do, I try not to wear it on my sleeve because I'd rather just people recognize that there's something in my life that allows me to live with greater peace and hope and joy and become interested in it than me trying to like push it in anybody's face. But there's, there's tenants about like, like, like Jesus' teachings. I really value. So cause I think about it, like everything that God asks us to do actually makes our life better. And that's a really, once I took that perspective, I stopped feeling like I was, I was being a Christian because I had to, I had to cause I don't want to go to hell. 

You know? And I was like, well, God commands us to be thankful. But what does that do? That brings more joy into our life. Yes. It's like, oh God commands us to forgive. Not just, it's a good suggestion. It's you must forgive. Well, forgiveness set me free. 

Speaker 0 (37m 21s): Yes. 

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): So the commandments of God make my life better and it's like, oh, oh, okay. And then, and then, so the one that I often think about a self-denial so that that's probably the one that people grapple with the most. Well, if this makes me feel good, what's the problem. I'm like, well, heroin makes you feel good. It's a real problem. You know? So the, th th there's a difference between happiness and pleasure in the brain. There's two different circuits, right? One's primarily dopamine based. One's primarily serotonin based in it, simplification of it. So the pursuit of pleasure leads us to addiction and addiction leads us to death. 

And so when we recognize that we go, what is self denial? It's it's sometimes saying no to pleasure so that we don't fall down the path of addiction because God understands how he created us. And so even self denial, it's, it's the road to life. It's the road to a better life, even here, now on earth. And so I'm like, oh, this isn't so bad. Actually, this 

Speaker 0 (38m 15s): Is cause it's good for us. 

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): You know? 

Speaker 0 (38m 19s): And I just, I want to just like, stop right there. I want to, I do have a hand that goes stopped, but anyway, Just stop right there. I wanted to say, remember how you said self-love and how guys aren't supposed to love themselves. Well, I want to back up and just remind people for those that believe in God, if not, just pull down the curtain right now. But for those who believe, God just know that he loves you unconditionally. 

And that is part of the healing. Like once you receive that in your life, then you can love yourself. And then you can love your enemies. Like the guys who tried to kill you and for, to forgive somebody. Cause I had to forgive my father. He didn't know what he was doing, you know, but he just didn't have a clue. But part of being able to get better for both you and I is to forgive. And I always say that people ask me, well, how do you know when you forgiven enough? 

You know, when you have forgiven, when the thought or the image or the name or the person is in front of you and you don't feel like killing, you feel like you actually have love, you actually have mercy or you actually want goodness for them. So the love of God really helps us learn to love ourselves. 

Speaker 1 (39m 44s): I, I mean, I love that. And I think when I became grateful for the experience is when I felt like that experience was complete in a sense. And, and you know, later on six years after that experience, seven years after the experience, I lost my life savings in, in sort of a business betrayal. 

Speaker 0 (40m 2s): Oh, so you lost everything, you hit rock bottom. 

Speaker 1 (40m 7s): Yeah. So, so, and I was still on this journey of sort of emotional healing and whatnot. And as an empath, I was preyed on by a narcissist. And you know, I, I use it, I try to use that term carefully. Cause I do believe it gets thrown around a little too lightly in social media. Like there is a clinical definition of narcissistic personality disorder and a very small percentage of people actually fit that at Emma. I'm only putting this qualify for it because I'm afraid that sometimes people just say someone did something you don't like, therefore they're a narcissist. I'm like, no, it doesn't quite work like that. We're talking actual pathological liar who can lie to your face without a trace of conscience, you know? 

And so 

Speaker 0 (40m 42s): Like definition. 

Speaker 1 (40m 43s): And so I got sucked in by this. I thought it was building an asset. I thought it was building a business and all this kind of stuff. And it was a business that was giving my life to, in one sense, way too much of it. And my wife spotted it way before I did that. I was being manipulated and I didn't want to believe it was happening again. It had to do with, again, my sense of self and my former business partner is a natural bodybuilder. You know, he has the appearance of being financially successful. He's got an admirable physique in all of this. And I thought, and, and at this time I thought he was a Christian man and he was a part of the same faith that I am and so on. And so there's all these things that, that like, he appeared to have everything that I want, but this is what narcissists do is they actually create an entire illusion around it. 

And really the business was a tax write-off for him. And he would, it was a sinking ship. And so this money that I was putting into the business, you know, just wasn't going anywhere. And so everything that had sunk into it thinking I was building this asset, this future asset for my family, maybe in a franchise well business and all of this went right down the tubes. I remember walking across the parking lot after a bailiff, put a lock on the door and going like, what do I, what do I say to my wife? How do I explain to her that everything I thought I was building is gone and we have, we have nothing but a mountain of debt. And, and, and I don't even know where to go anymore. 

Like I just dedicated like multiple years of my life to trying to build this business and sacrifice time away from her in, in pursuit of trying to build a better future for us. But I look back and I go, it was the mercy of God that he, he, he brought me to that place because that business had me trapped. And, and you want to talk about faith? Well, how about when you have nothing, have no money, mountain of debt, no credit. What do we even do? 

Speaker 0 (42m 19s): And the ad and have supernatural joy in that difficult circumstance with childlike faith, knowing something good is going to happen out of this situation. 

Speaker 1 (42m 31s): Yeah. So we go back to the lesson on forgiveness. Well, not. So I had to forgive this person who I thought was my friend, who I thought was one of my closest friends, trusted friends. And, you know, after the, after sort of the blinds were lifted off my eyes and I, I realized who he is, you know, a part of me, obviously again, I would never go into business with him again, but I recognize that he's someone who is suffering. He actually doesn't know what genuine friendship and love is because, you know, he, he, I now understand more of his backstory and his parents now he was raised in. So that led him to the place where he is this individual who operates in this world, manipulating people, because he doesn't know what true love is. 

He doesn't know what real friendship is. He destroyed his marriage with multiple affairs. Like he's ruined multiple people's lives with business failures and so on. And, and so it's like, I actually started to feel sorry for him and realized like, this is somebody who they don't like, they don't know, it's not to excuse the behavior, but it's like, here's someone who's suffering who doesn't know what I get to know. Doesn't know what real love is. You know, this beautiful marriage now. I mean, it's always been a good one. My wife and I just had natural chemistry, which is great. And I coasted on that for way too long, you know, before really, truly appreciate her. 

Now that she's a mother I'm like over the moon because I'm like, motherhood is the most beautiful and amazing thing ever. 

Speaker 0 (43m 43s): So that helps you heal to move forward and start climbing, climbing out of the pit is learning to forgive. 

Speaker 1 (43m 50s): Yeah. And there's something liberating, but like kinda like losing everything. It's like, I guess I, I can build that thing that I've been way too scared to do for my entire life. Cause I didn't believe in myself and I didn't believe in my ability. And you know, here I am, you know, actually at the time of recording this, it was four years ago to the day. 

Speaker 0 (44m 9s): Wow. 

Speaker 1 (44m 9s): That I walked across that parking lot with nothing, with nothing but a mountain of debt and a business that was going nowhere and could nothing could be salvaged from it literally four years ago to the day. I didn't realize that, wow, 

Speaker 0 (44m 21s): Bravo and you're here and you're alive. And you didn't, you didn't succumb. 

Speaker 1 (44m 28s): I've built a, I built a business that I love doing amazing work with people. That's incredibly fulfilling. I have a podcast that I, that I adore, you know, I didn't, I didn't realize how much I was gonna love podcasting. You know, 

Speaker 0 (44m 41s): It's pretty cool talking to other people and just seeing them talking to them about their journeys. Can I just ask you a question? If so, if you were the president, I just, cause there's so many questions we're going to have to do more of this. I know that you and my husband, you and my husband are going to be talking because you two are kindred spirits. So if you were the president, how would you tackle the obesity epidemic? And just know that I'd be right next to you on that. 


Speaker 1 (45m 13s): I think the first thing I would do is I would put a sugar tax, like 

Speaker 0 (45m 18s): Yes, 

Speaker 1 (45m 19s): And people are going to argue and be like, whoa, food, freedom, Liberty, ah, you know, this is Companies, Phillip Morris, a former tobacco company, while they'd probably still produce cigarettes, but they realized we need other addictive products because you know, they're clamping down on cigarettes. And so they have this whole portfolio of food products. So I would put a sugar tax and I would use that tax money to subsidize like low-income people getting healthy food or getting to the gym or, you know, because the, the way that, the way that our, our, our society is going, like the U S is going bankrupt because of how, how atrocious the state of health, its entire country. 

Isn't like, it is going bankrupt. It cannot save these 

Speaker 0 (46m 2s): People. I know. 

Speaker 1 (46m 4s): And so we have to take a drastic measure to change behavior and consumption patterns. And, and I would tax it very heavily because it is costing the government so much money and people will get angry. Like how dare you take this away from me, this is this because, Hey, when you take the drugs away from the addict, 

Speaker 0 (46m 23s): Remember the rat cocaine, sugar, all go for the sugar, 

Speaker 1 (46m 29s): But we'd never inhuman, like, you know, 200 years ago, the average person might get a, what? Six pounds of sugar a year, the 

Speaker 0 (46m 37s): Average person, 

Speaker 1 (46m 38s): 150 

Speaker 0 (46m 39s): Hundred and 50. Okay. So you would, you would, you would tack sugar. 

Speaker 1 (46m 44s): Yeah. Yeah. I would. I would, I would, I would actually use it to subsidize like people growing food and, and like growers co-ops and things where we can get more local food. So he, because what's the reason that we, we say like, there's two reasons, two primary reasons why we say we don't eat healthy food too expensive, and I don't have time. 

Speaker 0 (47m 5s): Right. 

Speaker 1 (47m 7s): Well, let's change those. 

Speaker 0 (47m 8s): Right. 

Speaker 1 (47m 9s): Right. Because 

Speaker 0 (47m 11s): I start teaching people how to cook instead of buying a box and pouring it over a pot of boiling water and say, this is food when it's just dead. 

Speaker 1 (47m 22s): Yeah. I mean, I, I think about, okay, how did, cause I, I put on my engineer's hat again and I go, okay, well, how can make healthy eating like really simple, in one sense, while I call it outsourcing cooking to my appliances. So let's say I've got a rice cooker. Well, I can do rice or keenwah or things like that in there, frozen vegetables. They're not, they're not a Paragon of health, but actually they're picked at peak ripeness and they're flash frozen. So they retain most of their nutrient integrity. Well, now I don't have to prep them because they literally just put them in a glass tray and put them in the oven and roast them, you know? 

Is it perfect? No, but it's a step. And I think we want to move away from this idea that we have to it's it's either all or nothing. It's either, you know, a fresh, like biodynamic organic, you know, harvested under the light of the, the March moon with the cows that were milked with like singing leprechauns or something, like, and, and get to, Hey, what, how do I bridge the gap? Okay. Look, if you're microwaving frozen vegetables, that's not like, great, but it's a lot better than eating, like, you know, fast food. That's a step in the right direction. 

Speaker 0 (48m 21s): Yeah. And for people to give themselves a clap for, for doing 

Speaker 1 (48m 25s): Absolutely. Yeah. So I, that the first thing I would target is sugar. And this is from a form of binge eating food addict, man. It's not easy to overcome this stuff, you know, but that's, it they're engineered to be addictive. So that's my, 

Speaker 0 (48m 41s): Well, I think that's a great way to start. And so just as we're landing this plane into the airport, 

Speaker 1 (48m 50s): That's my, that's the jet engine sort of winding down. 

Speaker 0 (48m 53s): Yeah. And we're, you know, the S the weight the stewardess is saying in first-class. Okay. We're going to be landing now, put your seat up. What three action steps would you give our listeners so that they can start winning right away? Like, you know, one second. No, I'm joking. Not in one second, but within, within a week. 

Speaker 1 (49m 15s): Yeah. Number one is create awareness. So how do you actually do that? Well, one of the first things I have my clients do is take photos of their meals. Really, really super simple action. There's no weighing. There's no counting, no calorie, math, nothing like that. Just snap a photo of your meal. When you do that, what you're doing is activating your prefrontal cortex. So now you're going to eat with more awareness. So just create awareness around your behaviors because we can't change. What we don't know. In 98% of our behavior happens at the subconscious level without our awareness. So we need to bring those patterns into the light. 

Number two, get help. It doesn't have to be paid, whether it's a support group, whether it's, you know, a Facebook group, a book, reading, blog articles watching get help. You are not SU so superhuman that you can do this by yourself, nor should there be any shame in getting help. I still have coaches. Why? Because I'm a human and I have blind spots. So in whatever way, shape or form, you can get some kind of build the biggest support team you possibly can get everybody you can in your life on board with you trying to get healthy. 

You know, your, your spouse, your partner, your doctor, your friends, just get them on board and be open. I want to change my, I need your help. I can't do the Sloan. I'm a human being who is struggling. The moment you become open about your struggles is, is the moment a huge weight lifts off your shoulders. I thought that when people found out that I was not a fitness model with shredded six pack, abs nobody would ever hire me in business. But it turns out that I actually, because of my understanding of the innate human struggle, I have like as busy as I've ever been, because like you get it, I'm like, yes, I do. 

So number one is create awareness. Number two is build your, build your support team. And number three is cultivate gratitude. It's I love the idea of a treasure hunt. And it's really this idea of start teaching your brain to look for good things in your life. Because when you start to find good things in your life, you stop turning to food to fill a void. 

Speaker 0 (51m 16s): Perfect. Well said, I love it. Perfect. How, where can, where can the listeners find you? And if this will all be in the show notes, this is a podcast. 

Speaker 1 (51m 28s): Well, I would love for everybody to go listen to an episode of between the before and after, and in particular is going to be an episode featuring a certain Dr. Isabel. So I I'm excited for when that gets shared up, but I would love. So I'd love for people to look up between the before and after podcast, where I share stories of people, who've overcome significant obstacles in their life, their stories of hope and inspiration. And that's what I want to bring to this world. So that's, I'd love to connect with you there. If you want to, if you want to connect with me and have a chat, like what you hear is what you get. Or if you see the video, what you see is what you get. This is who you're gonna talk to. Freedom, nutrition, 

So that's where you can find out more about the work that I do in term, in and around nutrition. Now I will say we're probably going to have a conversation on a weight loss, like you've never had before, because most people are expecting, I'm going to hand you a template. I'm like, Nope, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna, we're going to form a collaborative partnership where we, we reverse engineer your healthy lifestyle on your terms. It's, it's a pretty, I love what I do. It's actually really incredible. So yeah. Freedom, nutrition, Those are the two places I would say, go check out my podcast, click likely review. 

I would love to get hundreds of raving five-star reviews on my podcast. That'd be, that'd be so amazing. Cause I want to do more of it and share more stories about that. 

Speaker 0 (52m 41s): Yes. I, I love interviewing you. We'll definitely have you back on with chef Michael. Okay. 

Speaker 1 (52m 46s): That'd be an absolute pleasure. 

Speaker 0 (52m 48s): Well, thank you so much. And you, ah, I'm glad you're an empath and I'm glad you're honoring it. And, and in bracing it, cause we need more men that embrace that because you're going to be teaching millions of people around the world, how to take better care of themselves the right way, you know, the right way. Not the vanity way, but the right way. Not with, not with my coach says vanity metrics, not with vanity metrics, but with heart metrics. 

Speaker 1 (53m 17s): Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. So thank you so much for, for hosting this space as well. It's, it's, it's been a real pleasure 

Speaker 0 (53m 24s): And I'm glad you're alive. Yeah. All right, listeners, that's a wrap for me and Jonathan, thank you for joining us. And if you liked this podcast, go ahead and share it with your family and friends because you know, everybody needs that prescription of hope sometime in their life until next time remain unstoppable luck. I love you. Bye bye. 

Speaker 2 (53m 52s): Hello, chef Michael here. If you enjoyed today's episode, we would love it. If you subscribe to the podcast and left us a review.