MD and Chef Team - The Show!

Care for ALL Sizes!

April 06, 2021 Dr. Isabel MD & Culinary Nutrition Expert Chef Michael Season 2 Episode 9
MD and Chef Team - The Show!
Care for ALL Sizes!
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Isabel asks; "What is the weight neutral medicine or the HAES which is the Healthy at Every Size Philosophy referred to? "

Wendy:  It's a lot of what makes me unique as a nutritionist and a naturopathic doctor. So the HAES Philosophy is Health at Every Size and it's really about taking a weight neutral approach to medicine.

It's not that we are saying that weight does not matter but what we're saying is let's take the emphasis off of weight. Weight is not something any one of us as humans has the ability to control, while we can control all the habits we make in life – food, movement, sleep, chemical exposure, relationships, nervous system status, etc.

And so HAES says, “You know what? Let's just table the idea that we focus on your weight. Let's look at all of the factors that you have control over and let's try to live in a way that just feels well in whatever your body size may be.”

None of us have an ability to be the weight in our minds, right?  Like if someone is saying, “Oh but I “should” weigh 10 pounds less, 15 pounds less…”  According to who?

Dr WendyLeigh White, is a licensed Naturopathic (Nature-o-pathic) Doctor (ND) and

nondiet HAES nutritionist, takes a “nature cure” approach to prevention and healing in

her clinical practice, teaching, and speaking. She has maintained a clinical practice since

2008 and taught at the graduate level since 2016. In 2020, she was included in the

Portland Monthly’s Top Doctors, Naturopath category.

You can learn more about her at

and her YouTube Channel is

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Isabel:  Welcome everybody to the MD and Chef Team Podcast. I’m Dr. Isabel, medical doctor here and I am your host. Today we've got Dr. Wendy Leigh White, all the way from Oregon, USA.

Welcome, Wendy.

Wendy:   Thank you, very happy to be here with you.

Isabel:  Thank you. Now it is—you're in spring now?

Wendy:  We are. Yes, we are just beginning our spring so it's just starting to warm up and things are flowering already. So it's signs of hope are blooming.

Isabel:  Oh I love spring. It's such a beautiful time, especially coming out of winter.

Wendy: Agreed. And you know, it's funny I've always said there's such a push to do New Year's Eve resolutions and things. And I always say up here in the northern hemisphere like the middle of the dark cold winter is not the time to be making big crazy life decisions and life, you know, changes but the spring? You can just feel the change happening, like this is the time to kind of ride the wave.

Isabel:  Yes, I love it. I love your approach. I'd like to go ahead and introduce everybody to you and who you are. You're Dr. Wendy Leigh White, a licensed naturopath doctor. That's MD at the non diet HAES nutritionist and she takes a natural cure approach to prevention and healing in her clinical practice teaching and speaking. She has maintained a clinical practice since 2008 and taught at the graduate level since 2016. And in 2020, she was included in the Portland's monthly top doctors naturopath category. 

I love it and I love that you're still in private practice.

Wendy:  Yes. Yes and I think through this tele-health I'm exploring more group programs, more online courses, but one to one is still 100% available absolutely.

Isabel:  Yes. Now I wanted to ask you, what is the weight neutral medicine or the HAES which is the Healthy at Every Size Philosophy referred to? That's very intriguing.

Wendy:  I know it is and it's a lot of what makes me unique as a nutritionist and a naturopathic doctor. So the HAES Philosophy is Health at Every Size and it's really about taking a weight neutral approach to medicine.

It's not that we are saying that weight does not matter but what we're saying is let's take the emphasis off of weight. Weight is not something any one of us as humans has the ability to control, while we can control all the habits we make in life – food, movement, sleep, chemical exposure, relationships, nervous system status, etc.

And so HAES says, “You know what? Let's just table the idea that we focus on your weight. Let's look at all of the factors that you have control over and let's try to live in a way that just feels well in whatever your body size may be.”

Isabel:  I love it. We've got a lot of Pacific Islanders here in New Zealand and Maui, and they are very big boned.

Wendy:  None of us have an ability to be the weight in our minds, right? Like if someone is saying, “Oh but I “should” weigh 10 pounds less, 15 pounds less…” According to who? There isn't that guideline and in fact, the professional association associated with Health at Every Size, it's called ASDAH, the Association for Size Diversity and Health. And ASDAH made this great Youtube video called “Poodle Science.”

Isabel:  Poodle science?

Wendy:  Poodle Science. And they used this idea of “we all have different body structures.” Because if we look at dogs, we don't expect one of the examples they use in this cute little video is we don't expect a mastiff to be a poodle. No matter what diet we put the mastiff on, he's still a mastiff not a poodle.

I think it's really interesting that we can acknowledge how silly that seems when with respect to dogs. But we, as humans, are the same way. We have this variety of muscularity, amount of padding, distribution of padding.

I'm just in a thinner body, I was born this way, it's my genetics. Other people are just born in larger bodies and the pressure and the discrimination within our health care that people who live in a larger body experience day to day, think of the amount of stress that they accumulate over their lives. Think about the health impacts of that stress.

Maybe, just maybe, that's a significant fueler to their dysfunction, or dishealth or disease, just as much as any other inflammatory process. 

Isabel:  Alright. I so love that philosophy because I have seen, you know, as a functional medical doctor, I look at people and I go, then they're overweight. But then you do their blood tests, and you for certain know that they've got to be pre-diabetic or type 2 diabetic, but their blood panels look amazing.

Wendy: You know? Great example of there is just as much likelihood that a person in a thinner body can be unhealthy as a person in a larger body. We cannot make assumptions about someone's health by looking at them. And I think really, that's one of the foundational tenants of Health at Every Size is that we really can't make any assumptions. 

There are people with knee issues who are in thin bodies and larger bodies. There are people with high blood pressure in thinner bodies and larger bodies. We can't make any assumptions about looking at someone unless you know, like turning green and vomiting, then we can make an assumption that they're ill.

But body size does not have that connection.

Isabel:  I love it. I really, really do love it. Because trained as a conventional medical doctor, we were so skewed into thinking, “Oh, you're fat, you're unhealthy. And if you're skinny, you're healthy.” But we now, you and I both, know that you can be skinny fat. You know, you can be skinny on the outside, but on the inside, you are tremendously inflamed. Yeah.

Wendy:  Yeah. And I think, because the training is there within conventional medical, the bias is there as well. And so there are a whole bunch of studies that really show that nurses, doctors, nutritionists make assumptions about those who live in larger bodies - that they're lazy, that they don't take care of themselves, that they're lacking willpower, rather than just looking at someone and asking them lifestyle and habit questions, asking them about motivation and mood, and really just, you know, giving them the open-hearted care that you give anyone else without

Isabel:  I love it. 

Wendy:  Yeah.

Isabel:  I love it.

Wendy:  Have you ever heard of the Harvard implicit bias tests?

Isabel:  No.

Wendy:  So if you Google “Harvard University implicit bias tests” they have a couple of dozen tests. You can choose which one to take. There's a weight test, there's a gender test, there's a like ethnicity test. And basically, these are psychological quizzes you can take online that help give you insight to your subconscious programming. And it's fascinating, because the point is not to say, “Oh, look, I am a racist.” I mean, you know, I'm giving that as an example.

It's important to answer the questions and go through the quizzes, honestly. And then use that insight of “Oh, is that the first thing that I think of when I see a person who has x, y, or z?” And I think it's important for us to really reflect on what our knee jerk reactions are? Because we might say, “Oh, no, I believe in Health at Every Size.” And yet, if there's a subconscious bias, that might come out in our body language when we're working with a client, or it might come out in our phrasing, unless we're very mindful.

So the more we can increase the awareness of what our biases are, then the less likely we are to project them on to other people. 

Isabel:  And people would you agree can pick up on your thinking? 

Wendy:  Absolutely. 

Isabel:  You don't have to say a thing. They can pick up on what you’re thinking. I so believe that. Yeah.

Wendy:  Yeah, yeah.

Isabel:  Okay, so I will Google “Harvard implicit bias test” and take the tests.

Wendy:  They're fun.

Isabel:  Yeah.

Wendy:  And, you know, there's I had a lawyer in one of my psychology of eating classes. And he said, “You know, those tests aren't admissible in a court of law.” And I said, “Okay, I'm not saying they're 100%, concrete, black and white. I use them as information. They are studied, they're being vetted. And it's information. If it resonates with you like “Oh, I think I am a little more biased than I was aware,” then that's just opening your mind. I don't need them to hold up in a court of law.

Isabel:  Right, and it's good for medical practitioners at any level to take those tests.

Wendy:  Absolutely. The more we can be aware of our automatic patterns, the more likely we can be to pause and interrupt the knee jerk reaction that would be the result of our automatic patterns.

Isabel:  Very good, very good. I'd like you to let our audience know what it's like to go see a naturopathic doctor. 

Wendy:  Absolutely. So just like in any other field, there can be a wide variety of how your visit with a naturopathic doctor can go and FYI it can be naturopathic or naturopathic. It depends on the individual so both pronunciations are correct. I tend to say naturopathic, but sometimes naturopathic comes out of my mouth as well. 

Isabel:  What did I say naturopath or naturopath?

Wendy:  Naturopath. But again, both of them are correct. It's just habit. 

Isabel:  Yeah. 

Wendy:  And so the philosophical foundation that is different, is that naturopathic doctors really believe that we are so well designed, that we have this internal vital force that can heal itself. 

So, when you see a naturopathic doctor when they're really foundationally, following the naturopathic tenets, first do no harm, heal, identify and treat the root cause, identify the whole person, doctor as teacher—all of these are the naturopathic principles. 

And so seeing a naturopathic doctor means that you are really exploring mental, emotional, spiritual and physical aspects of yourself, your history, your parents’ and grandparents’ medical history, what the epigenetics and genetics have been of your in utero experience, signs and symptoms, how someone is experiencing their feelings.

And then the treatment is such that we want to really support the wisdom of the body, not to control it. So if someone often—let's use eczema or atopic dermatitis, as an example. If someone's really struggling with these skin issues, in my mind, the skin is not the problem. It's an irritant in the system and the body is just showing us that it's irritated by manifesting on the skin.

And so we can put topical things on the skin to soothe. But really, when we address, gut function and immune system balance and nervous system balance, we're addressing more of the root cause, and helping the body to have all the information and support it needs in order to heal itself. 

Isabel:  And I also add, because I've had so many patients with skin issues, and you've talked to them about their stress, and I always say, “Okay, who's getting under your skin?”

Wendy:  Absolutely. Because our mind, body, spirit, is all connected.

Isabel: Like “Wow, Doc,” and I'm like, “Oh, we have to look at these things.”

Wendy:  We do and you know, it's so often uncomfortable for people to hear those connections, for people to really say, “Oh, I never thought that the way I'm living you know, the pace of my life is affecting my health and, and there is a range of how someone can practice between—I'm more kind of on the end of lifestyle, medicine, nature cure, really using water, food, air, nature, breath—all of those foundational things.

And the other end is more integrative or functional med. Maybe more supplements might be used on this side of the spectrum. But really, we're all doing it in honor of the fact that our bodies are amazing. 

No one thinks twice that when you physically break a bone, that the doctors put it in line so that when it heals, it heals straight. But no one really finds awe in the fact that our bodies can remit bone and if we can remit physical bones, why couldn't we redirect a physiological pathway. 

If someone says “Oh well I have diabetes I'm gonna have it forever. Well if your body created that diabetes, who's to say that we can't reverse the physiology to recover? And really it's just having faith that the body is brilliant and it can do that.

Isabel:  And people can reverse pre-diabetes and type 2 diabetes.

Wendy:  Yes, correct. Yeah.

Isabel:  And just to kind of put that in real quick—and people can also prevent dementia, cognitive decline and Alzheimer’s.

Wendy:  Yes.

Isabel:  Have you read doctor—

Wendy:  A.K.A type 3 diabetes.

Isabel:  Yes. Have you read Dr. Dale Bredesen’s book, “The End of Alzheimer's”?

Wendy:  I have not.

Isabel:  Oh please, please read that book.

Wendy:  I will look for it. 

Isabel:  He's been studying and reversing cognitive decline and early Alzheimer's. And now he's trained up about 1,500 naturopath medical doctors around the world and I'm one of them that we can actually help reverse Alzheimer’s and cognitive decline. 

So for the audience to let people know that you can, you do not have to live with pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, you don't have to live with high blood pressure, you don't have to live with cognitive decline, dementia or Alzheimer's. This stuff is preventable and reversible.

Wendy:  Yeah, agreed.

Isabel:  Yeah.

Wendy:  It's just so interesting that in our culture here in the US, we really have such a focus on the external things that can “save” us, right? And really, one of the reasons my radio show’s name was “Tuned Into Your Body” was the idea that let's flip that and let's really have greater faith that we are incredibly amazing beings, and that we can pay attention, know what we need, learn how to live in accordance with the fact that we're just fancy animals. And if we pay attention to, oh as a fancy animal, I need movement, I need nourishment, I need connection with my tribe or larger community. If we pay attention to these things it becomes so much easier to be well.

And I'm not speaking about being rigid and about always having to make those “perfect” choices. No, like we're built in with resiliency. We have livers to detoxify for a reason. It's when we overwhelm our systems that we run into some problems.

Isabel:  Well put, well put.

Wendy:  We're pretty incredible. 

Isabel:  We really are.

Wendy:  Many people don’t know that. I often say I have faith that your body is brilliant and until you learn that you can have faith too, I have enough for both of us. And you know, patients will come back and say “I heard your voice in my head saying that you had faith in my body,” and I'm like I still do. Do you yet? And sometimes they come back and say it's coming but really like I'm sad that we ever lost it. We knew we were fabulous and amazing when we were young. It's sad to me that that gets overprogrammed by our culture.

Yeah, I think that's a tragedy. I think that if everyone retained the ability to know how beautiful they were, I think we'd have very different medical care systems and very different epidemics or pandemics.

Isabel:  Well, as you can see, our system is in demise, not only in America but in New Zealand too. We don't have health care. We've got disease management. So yeah, it's time for a change and that's what we're doing. It’s just bringing about change and empowering people, right?

Wendy:  I agree. And the more people that we can reach, we can plant that seed to say, “Hey, there's another option. You can have faith. You can find ways to support yourself that rely on yourself rather than an external something,” like the more people we can reach the better because then we'll be asking for it. And overall, you know, there's a marketing business mentor that I follow quite a bit and one of her—I'm sure she's not the first to say it, but she often says, “A rising tide lifts all boats.” 

And I think the same goes for the more well I can be, the more I can facilitate that for others. They can take that for their friends and family and then we have a community that is less symptomatic, less achy, less headachy, less grumpy and anxious, and all the things that come with being out of balance and unsupported.

Isabel:  Yep, very good. I'd love to hear what your story is. Because everybody's got a story and it's just important for everybody to know what your story is, because it helps them. People learn from our pain.

Wendy:  And my story is definitely two part, one is mine and one is my mom's. And so I'll start with mine. 

Isabel:  Okay. 

Wendy:  Super sickly kid. 

Isabel:  What happened? 

Wendy:  My parents just said from the day I was born, mucus was coming out everywhere. I had chronic ear infections, I had chronic constipation. I was just a sickly kid. I lived on Amoxicillin, it was the pink fluffy antibiotics that I drank throughout every winter of my childhood. And by the time I hit teens, I had pelvic concerns like incredibly harsh menstrual cycles and cramps. I'd vomit every month with the pain. So I got put on the oral contraceptive pill, went through anxiety and depression all through teens, migraines, all sorts of skin reactions.

I got to graduate school, I was under 100 pounds. I'm five foot one. So I was wasting away. I was having chronic GI issues. I was losing weight. I was weak, getting migraines all the time. And I had an allergist, a conventional MD allergist who laughed and said, “Ha-ha, you should publish your diet, everybody wants to lose weight.”

Now I was in tears wasting away. And she was making light of it. And she had nothing to offer me—nothing. I was off of wheat, potatoes, tomatoes, fish, nuts, soy, and chocolate—plus or minus. I was wasting away and she had nothing to offer me. And I meandered through my 20s looking for what other options there may be.

I found a holistic nutritionist, I found a chiropractor who did a little bit of functional medicine. And then I discovered naturopathic medicine, where everything just came together. I came home from that visit and my husband was like, because I was just (making chattering sounds) like so fast. So excited of like, I found this amazing thing. 

And so I'm now in my late 40s. I still have the same tendencies that I've had through my life because I am who I am. And yet I'm healthier now than I've ever been because I know how to tune in. I know, in general, how I need to live, how I can choose to live, to allow my body to be my body. When I look at the genetics from which I come—incredible heart disease, incredible diabetes.

My mom had a quintuple bypass at age 50. I'm only two years away from that. And really, that began 21 years of her decline. And it was painful for her as well as for all of us who loved her. And she was mildly open to exploring natural means, but not really. And you know, we had a mother-daughter relationship in that it had its ups and it had its downs. I remember one particular time where she had another cardiac event and we were in ICU with her between every one to three years for the last 10 years or so. And we were on the phone shortly after that and she was commenting of how she wasn't feeling well and all of that and I made a comment that said, “Mom, I'm having a hard time finding compassion for you, because I feel as though you're suffering from natural consequences of all of your choices.”

And I think of how painful that must have been for her to hear at how blaming I was for her situation. And this really goes back to the Health at Every Size. Linda Bacon wrote a beautiful Health at Every Size and body respect book. I think that it's really unfair of us to put that amount of blame on any individual. We can look at our society, and how our society sets us up for disease, for giving away our power feeling as though we have no choices.

So my target right now, my target population, I really want to work with people in their late 30s, 40s, where they're looking at their strong family history of diabetes and heart disease, and they're heading down that path. And they don't yet know that there's another way, but they're wondering if there is, that's who needs to see me. Because I know that we have the power to live, make choices in our food and movement and chemicals and all that stuff. So that we don't have to follow in our family's medical footprints.

Isabel:  Absolutely. And I want to empower everybody that you can choose at any age. Okay?

Wendy:  Exactly. I'm resonating for that age group, simply because it is often that like fork in the road. But that doesn't mean that once you've chosen one that you can't U-turn. 

Isabel:  That's right. And it's also because you're at the end of the 40s. 

Wendy:  Exactly, it's where I am.

Isabel:  Yeah, it's your space girl, it's your space. Now I want to kind of go back to you figured out how you were going to live. So how did you decide to—if you're okay with this, tell me, tell us what does a day look like for you starting from the beginning.

Wendy:  Whenever possible, I try to wake on my own. Now—

Isabel:  Oh boy. It’s nice. 

Wendy:  More often than not, it's not possible. But I like to try to start my day that way. If I have to set an alarm, I do backtrack and make sure that I can get that eight to nine hours of sleep before I need to wake up. 

Isabel:  And do you sleep eight to nine hours straight?

Wendy:  I do. 

Isabel:  Okay, well we're gonna need to share with everybody how you do that, okay? ‘Coz I'm really into getting everybody to slide.

Wendy:  Yeah, I know. I agree ‘coz so much hinges on not just our quantity, but our quality - agreed. 

Isabel:  And so many people think that it's okay to get four or five hours of sleep. They’ll sleep when they're dead. And I'm like, oh my gosh. 

Wendy:  It's just not there's so much that's regulated while we're sleeping, that it really has an effect on everything. I call our bodies like this big, crazy spider web where everything's connected to everything else and sleep is one of the big center pieces.

So even if I have to set an alarm, I set enough time that I have at least an hour and a half before I need to do anything. And that is to yoga or meditate, to walk the dog, feed the dog, have breakfast with my husband, shower and dress and then about an hour and a half after I wake up I can begin something.

I'm always tweaking my weekly calendar, so that I know that I have enough time that all the important things need to fit in and important might be self care for me, lunch with my husband, and I say lunch with my husband now because we're both working from home for this last year. And so we walk the dog three times a day at least.

So everything really is on a weekly basis kind of mapped out. There's flexibility in that of course, but there's the general guideline that really makes sure that I'm capturing everything that's important to me on the calendar. I often describe it as making sure you're transferring your values to your calendar so that you're living in a way that's important to you.

I know what foods work better for me than others. I feel fabulous when I eat Indian food, legumes and vegetables and curries. I don't feel great when I eat too much dairy, wheat, potatoes or tomatoes. I know that I don't do well with intense physical movement. I do much better with walking, hiking, yoga. With me in particular, when I do intense movement, I either need a two or three hour nap, or I get a migraine. 

Yeah. And so I think that it's a dynamic process, I learn things about myself all the time.

I know that I can do really well with sweet things made with maple syrup, coconut sugar, or honey but I don't feel great when I eat things made with cane sugar. And all of these things are just things that I've learned about myself over time.

Isabel:  Yeah, and you've just gone on that journey. That takes time and patience and love and forgiveness. Yeah, forgiving yourself of all the craziness we've done in our 20s and 30s. I'm sorry, buddy. 

Wendy:  No, like are you familiar with the adverse childhood events?

Isabel:  Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. 

Wendy:  So for the listeners who don't know, they looked at—I think it was the top 8 or 10 kind of dysfunctional things that could happen in a kid's life and divorce or an incarceration of a parent or emotional abuse or things of that nature.

Isabel:  Or mother being violently…

Wendy:  Right, mother being abused by a partner, or by someone else in the household. All of these, like, you know, these terrible things.

Isabel:  And alcoholism and drug abuse, just to mention a few. 

Wendy:  Right. And they looked, 25 years later at the likelihood of developing all these chronic diseases. And no surprise to me, because I see mind, body, spirit connecting to physical, that really, if you had, you know, a certain number of these aces in your childhood, you were really more likely to have the chronic diseases in your adulthood.

So it's also about, like you said, looking in the past and seeing what we can kind of stir up so that it can get integrated and released or processed rather than just stored in our tissue. 

Isabel:  Absolutely. And I do encourage everybody to Google adverse childhood experiences and getting their number. Just to give you a little snippet of how that affected me, seven years ago, I tried to take my life twice in three days. 

I know, as a medical doctor, I mean, I had everything going for me. I had stepped into my early 50s. I was loving life, we started Doctor on a Mission and I just—I don't know, I just became overwhelmed. I didn't sleep more than three hours every night for 17 days. 

I can share this story now because I'm so way over on the other side, and I had to go through my journey, as you did to figure out - okay, what is going on? And, yeah, it's a terrible place. It's a terrible, terrible place. But I'm really grateful that I went through that place because now I can help so many people overcome anxiety and depression naturally. I was placed on antidepressants, and the psychiatrist said, “You're going to be on this for the rest of your life.” And I'm like, “Okay, I'll do it now. But I know I'm gonna figure this out.” 

And one of the things on my journey was ace, and when I looked back, my number was four, greater than four. Anything greater than four people, increases your risk of suicide by 1200%. 

Wendy:  Unreal, isn’t it?

Isabel:  Unreal. So this is so, so important. And of course, once you figure out what your adverse childhood experience is, because a lot of us just want to drown it out with drugs and alcohol and sex or rock and roll and gambling and pornography, and you just got to do the hard work. I encourage everybody to please go and do your adverse childhood experience. Get the number and start doing the work because it's so worth it. 

Wendy:  Agreed and that work could look different for any given individual. You know, I've done talk therapy off and on since I was probably 13. 

Isabel:  For yourself?

Wendy:  For myself. In every state I've lived and across the country and I currently have a therapist who is a trained in sensorimotor psychotherapy, which is really all about accessing stored information kind of Bessel Van Der Kolk’s body keeps the score philosophy or your body storing things. And so it's a somatic experience of this therapy session, more connecting to the body, less just chit chatter. 

In every bit of therapy along my way has served a particular purpose. I think I often talk with my patients about “Okay, and who's your therapist? Do you like them? Do you feel connected to them?” because as we're making life changes, as we're looking at our childhood, as we're dealing with the hyper vigilant, overstimulation of the world, it's super helpful to have someone on board to help you process, give you perspective. 

We don't live in supportive communities anymore. Some of us do, and wow, congratulations. But you know, we don't tend to do. And I think getting that added support can often be super helpful. 

Isabel:  Yes.

Wendy:  And not everyone's open to it, right? I've had patients say, “It's in the past, it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect me.”

Right. We know scientifically that that's just not the truth. But that's not my decision to make for anyone else. I can tell them that there's science that says otherwise, I can encourage them, I can maybe guide them to experience a little bit. But there are some people for whom it's just too painful and so therefore, like, that's their choice. They don't have to, but I do believe that it would have an effect on the rest of their health for the rest of their life. 

Isabel:  Yes, I agree with you 100%. And also, Wendy, I just congratulate you with your mom, not bleeding into her disease. And what I mean by that is, yes, she had coronary artery disease. Yes, she did unwell. But you decided that that wasn't going to bleed into you, your mom's story was not going to be your story. 

Wendy:  Yeah, and that took effort. When I was a child, I hid behind my mom. I did not have my own identity until I was probably about 18 when I went that first year of college. I was very much her mini-me and it was a mindful decision. It was rough for both of us, for me, to break that pattern and to choose to do things differently.

I moved halfway across the country mindfully to get that to work out before I felt strong enough as an individual to then be able to, to move closer again. 

Isabel:  I understand that distancing really does help you detach. 

Wendy:  Yeah, you know, and I needed to in order to really fully form myself as my own person, to break the shadow, to break the connection of, I was automatically just following in her footsteps. I love her to pieces and I knew that that wasn't healthy for me, and that I had to do something differently.

Isabel:  Bravo. Bravo, because that was bold and courageous and I congratulate you for that. 

Wendy:  Thank you.

Isabel:  All right. Was there anything else you wanted to share before we land this plane? 

Wendy:  No, I think we've covered all the really important things and I hope that people really take away faith in themselves, curiosity to find out how one can live in a way that promotes health with greater ease. 

I think people assume that trying you know, trying to be healthier, so effortful and, and yucky. I'm here to say, “You know what? Like, it doesn't have to be we can just approach it with curiosity and practice and discovery. We're all human and none of us is perfect. There's no expectation of perfection. It's all a process—curious learning process.”

Isabel:  Right. We're not looking for perfection, we're looking for progress. Right?

Wendy:  Absolutely.

Isabel:  And for the audience, you can find Dr. Wendy Leigh White at, that will be in the podcast link under this. You can also go to YouTube and check out Dr. Wendy Leigh White, Tune Into Your Body. We'll go ahead and do all the links down below to that. 

Check out Dr. Wendy on the moon help and heal the world.

Wendy:  Yes, ma’am.

Isabel:  Alright. Hey, stay blessed and remain unstoppable. It’s been a delight talking to you, Wendy.

Wendy:  Thank you so much. It was great to be here. Thanks, Dr. Isabel.

Isabel:  You’re welcome. Buh-bye and enjoy spring!

Wendy:  Thank you. You enjoy your fall.

Isabel:  Yeah but you know what happens after fall.

Wendy:  Yeah, day by day.

Isabel:  Alright, buh-bye.

Wendy:  Take care.