MD and Chef Team - The Show!

Hormones, Hormones, Hormones! Help,what's happening to me?

November 10, 2021 Dr. Isabel MD & Culinary Nutrition Expert Chef Michael Season 2 Episode 32
MD and Chef Team - The Show!
Hormones, Hormones, Hormones! Help,what's happening to me?
Show Notes Transcript

❇ π‘³π’‚π’…π’Šπ’†π’”, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 π’šπ’†π’” π’šπ’π’– π’ˆπ’–π’šπ’”, 𝒏𝒆𝒆𝒅 𝒕𝒐 π’‘π’‚π’š π’‚π’•π’•π’†π’π’•π’Šπ’π’ 𝒕𝒐 π’•π’‰π’Šπ’” π’Šπ’π’•π’†π’“π’—π’Šπ’†π’˜, 𝒂𝒔 π’Šπ’• 𝒄𝒐𝒖𝒍𝒅 π’π’Šπ’•π’†π’“π’‚π’π’π’š 𝒔𝒂𝒗𝒆 π’šπ’π’–π’“ π’“π’†π’π’‚π’•π’Šπ’π’π’”π’‰π’Šπ’‘! ❇

βœ…Β  Dr. Isabel and Dr. Carrie dive into the depths of hormones, what may be happening to you, and what you can do to get some answers and solutions.

Dr. Carrie has been in the field 20+ years and with DUTCH since the start in 2013. She has been interested in women's health for a long time and find that explaining hormones and how they work in the body is really important to give people that A-ha moment of why they have certain symptoms.

βœ…Β  Carrie Jones, ND, FABNE, MPH is an internationally recognized speaker, consultant, and educator on the topic of women's health and hormones. Dr. Jones graduated from the National University of Natural Medicine in Portland, Oregon where she also completed a 2-year residency in women's health, hormones, and endocrinology.

Later, she graduated from Grand Canyon University's Master of Public Health program. Recently, Dr. Jones became board certified through the American Board of Naturopathic Endocrinology. She was adjunct faculty for many years, teaching gynecology and advanced endocrinology/fertility.

βœ…Β  While in practice, Dr. Jones served as Medical Director for 2 large integrative clinics in Portland. Most recently, she joined Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center as the Clinical Expert serving the SOS Stress Recovery Program and is the Medical Director for Precision Analytical Inc.

⏬   Download and Listen to the Whole Story!  ⏬

βž₯Β  Where listeners can find Dr. Carrie Jones:

Dr. Carrie Website:

Precision Analytical and Dutch Test Website:


Β  Β  Β  Β  Β  Β  βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž– βž–Β 

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Speaker 0 (0s): Coming up on this episode of the MD and chef team show, 

Speaker 1 (8s): I've had a lot of women over the years say I went to my doctor. I told them I felt hormonal. I don't know what that means. I just know something's wrong. So I'm blaming my hormones. And my doctor said to me, well, your hormones change every month. So like Wright's rollercoaster. So that changes. So I'm not going to test you. Here's an antidepressant or I'm not going to test you. What do you expect? You've got two kids under the age of five and you're running a business. You know, I'm not going to test you like, this is just what happens. So try to get more sleep and, and good luck. 

And I just think all that's crap. 

Speaker 0 (43s): Welcome to the show from DM DSF team. I'm Dr. Isabel medical doctor here at the MD and chef team and 

Speaker 2 (52s): Chef Michael Coleman nutrition expert. I'm the chef part of the kid. 

Speaker 0 (56s): And what are we going to talk about bed? Now? I can see that cause he's my husband. 

Speaker 2 (1m 1s): Well, then we'll be talking about marriage relationships, parenting intimacy. Talk about mindsets that success overcoming depression, anxiety. I'll be getting into functional nutrition, recipes and tips from the kitchen. And we're going to both get into how to live a long, healthy, vibrant life. 

Speaker 0 (1m 19s): Yes, I love it. Our mission is to help you prevent and reverse the disease and give you both in the process. Oh yeah. Hi Carrie. How are you doing 

Speaker 1 (1m 38s): Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on. I, 

Speaker 0 (1m 42s): I, I'm so blessed that you are here. Where are you coming to us from 

Speaker 1 (1m 46s): Rainy Portland, Oregon. I looked out the window today and I said, oh, it's here. Fall is here. It's pouring down rain. 

Speaker 0 (1m 53s): Is it cold or humid 

Speaker 1 (1m 55s): Or cold? Yeah, it's cold. We're not a very humid. The Pacific Northwest is not very humid. We can get hot, but not humid. Thank goodness. 

Speaker 0 (2m 3s): And you like living in that environment? 

Speaker 1 (2m 8s): I've been here 22 years. We are definitely looking to snowbird sooner, rather than later, we've been checking out some sunnier locations because you can only handle the rain for so long. Yeah. Like what kind of reviews is a long time? Yeah, 

Speaker 0 (2m 21s): It is a long time. Like what kind of areas are you thinking about 

Speaker 1 (2m 24s): What we spent the entire month of April and Phoenix? Arizona. Two of my best friends lived there. And so we stayed for the month to see, can we handle it? Can we handle the heat of Arizona? Did we like Arizona? And it was just fun to have a great community already built in. And so that's where we've been sort of looking cool. 

Speaker 0 (2m 40s): Yeah. Sounds like fun. I'm all for adventures. You know, I moved to New Zealand when I was 40, so it's okay to move and just shit, spread your wings, Eagle spread 

Speaker 1 (2m 52s): And go. I love these Zealand's, I've been New Zealand twice, but I've only been just in the Capitol. I was lecturing. I do, I do hormone education and one of our distributors of course there. And so every time they're like, and they fly me out and their winter, which is, you know, conference season, everyone's on holiday in the summer. So they're always like, we'll have to have you back and have you explored, you know, the islands and, and really do some tracks and stuff I'm like, yeah, please. And then COVID hit. 

Speaker 0 (3m 22s): Yes. Yes. But that it won't last forever. All pandemics end. Yes. 

Speaker 1 (3m 27s): That is true. 

Speaker 0 (3m 27s): Hallelujah. How about if I introduce you to our listeners and share a little bit about your story and then we'll take a deep dive into this whole podcast. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (3m 36s): Oh yeah, 

Speaker 0 (3m 36s): Please. Okay. Let's see. Dr. Carrie Johns is a nature path. Doctor is an internationally recognized speaker, consultant and educator on the topic of women's health and hormones. Thank you so much for doing this work. Dr. Jones graduated from the national university of natural medicine in Portland, Oregon, where she also completed a two year residency in women's health, hormones, and endocrinology. And for those of you who are not familiar with endocrinology, it's just the medical term for studying hormones later. 

She graduated from grand grand canyon university master of public health. Wow. Program recently, Dr. Jones became board certified through the American board of nature, pathic endocrinology, congratulations and Bravo. Thank you. She was adjunct faculty for many years, teaching gynecology and advanced endocrinology and fertility. While in practice, Dr. John served as medical director for two large integrative clinics in Portland, Oregon. 

Now most recently she joined lifestyle matrix resource center as the clinical expert, serving the SLS stress recovery program and is the medical director of precision analyticals. Wow. 

Speaker 1 (4m 58s): That's test. 

Speaker 0 (4m 60s): Yes. Which we'll be talking about. Wow. You've got a very productive life, 

Speaker 1 (5m 5s): All around hormones. I S I stick in my lane. I know what my lane is and that's what I focus on. 

Speaker 0 (5m 11s): And that's what we're talking about today. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So can you tell me, tell me your story. Like what started you to get interested in hormones? 

Speaker 1 (5m 22s): I knew from a very young age that I wanted to become a doctor. I thought I wanted to do OB GYN, maybe pediatrics. And I grew up in the states. I grew up in Lexington, Kentucky. I'm not from there. I wasn't born there, but that's where I grew up. And so in the south sex ed was taught by the high school football coach, which you can imagine how well that went over. And as I got older and subsequently then found naturopathic medicine, I was just always drawn to hormones because as a woman and having lots of female friends, I would learn very cool things that I would tell them. 

Did, you know, did you know, did you know, I didn't know this. Why didn't you, why didn't anyone tell me this? You know, and my friends, my mom, everyone's like fine. No, that nobody taught me that, you know, we're just sort of winging it out here and female land. And I thought, okay, this is ridiculous. And I got into more and more about hormones because I found so many people don't understand them. So many people understand puberty. You know, we get taught how maybe how to get pregnant or how to not get pregnant. And that's it. It's like, and your education's done good luck, you know, less than B and so many struggle, right? 

They struggle in their twenties. You struggle in your thirties and it's different things. And then you hit your forties and it's a whole different world and your fifties. And I wish I had a not long ago. I had somebody say, don't, you wish like every 10 years we had a, like a welcome to your, this decade, like a webinar. Yeah. Like a conference. We all went to like, welcome to your forties. This is what's going to happen. 

Speaker 0 (7m 1s): Hey, that's not a bad idea. 

Speaker 1 (7m 4s): And I had wonderful patients. I'm I'm 44 now. But when I got into practice, I was in my late twenties. And so I had all these wonderful patients who were like, Hey, you wait kiddo. And sure enough, sure enough, every single one of them was true. Everything from, you know, when you hit your forties, it's going to be tougher to sleep. Or whether it's around, like where your weight distribution is or brain fog or how your periods change. And, you know, like, it seems to be a very common thread and they were right. And it's, that's my feeling. 

It's my job to help educate everyone on hormones, because they're not crazy, but boy, we can feel it sometimes. 

Speaker 0 (7m 42s): Oh yeah. And you are, you are. And that's, you know, that's part of the mission at Dr. Ana mission is teach the world about hormones. I wanted to, gosh, where do I start with you? Because I've got so much to ask you, I want to talk about something that's really dear to my heart and that's anxiety and depression. And as you know, in 2013, which is so such a significant year, because that's the year that Dutch test started, that's the year that you started. 

And that was just reading that I was like, oh my gosh, this is huge. So in 2013, just a little bit about my story in 2013, I decided to give away medical practice, my private practice and start an online business. You know, I saw Dr. Mark Hyman doing what he was doing. I was like, I can help heal the world before I die. You know, that feeling right. Of course. So I gave away private practice and started. So in 2013, when Dutch tests started, I was a medical doctor, a wife, a mother, and a brand new medical entrepreneur online. 

Like we don't get taught this stuff in medical school. Right. 

Speaker 1 (8m 54s): Not even a little bit. Yep. 

Speaker 0 (8m 56s): It's not even touched on. And then the first year was fine, you know, but then the, when 2014 came on board, I was then 54. And I didn't really understand that I was going through perimenopause. And so what happened was I started getting anxious and when I get anxious, I do not sleep. And I ended up not sleeping any more than two to three hours for 17 nights straight. And by the end, you know, being trained as doctors were trained to just grind it out, go into beast mode where we're okay on just a couple of hours of sleep that is such a lie. 

And so by the end of the 17 nights, I tried to take my life twice in three days. And by the grace of God, that plan was stopped. And I was taken to the psychiatrist and as a medical doctor, going to a psychiatrist, that's like bad. Do-do, you know, like you're really in bad, in a bad place. And here's what the psychiatrist said to me. He said, Isabel, I'm going to put you to sleep. And he did. He put me to sleep and I'm grateful that he put me to sleep. 

Cause there are some good, strong, powerful medicines to put you to sleep. And here's an antidepressant. You're going to be on it for the rest of your life. And, you know, I was totally obedient and surrender to whatever I needed to do. Cause I was in a bad place. Yeah, of course. But deep down in my soul, I said, we'll see about that. I guess that's just the way I am. 

Speaker 1 (10m 28s): Sure. But yeah. 

Speaker 0 (10m 31s): And then I went on a five-year journey and I learned about bioidentical hormones. And that's what I want to share with you. I want to share with our listeners, because I remember taking the Institute of functional medicine two years after you guys opened up, did an, a module on hormones. And one of the doctors was teaching us about bio-identical hormones. And she said that she had a friend who was doing everything she could to take good care of herself. 

She was healthy. She was 54. She ate, well, she was into yoga exercising, but she committed suicide. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that was me. And I just want to make my mess into a message through your education. And just, if you could share with us, what do you know about anxiety and depression and women's health and menopause and perimenopause and the whole thing? Well, 

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): It's back to the original thing I said where I feel like we need to get taught at the start of our decade. What's happening. That's a huge one because I had a lot of women who were older than me that said, you, wait, you wait, you are going to do everything right. You will change nothing. You won't change your diet. You won't change your eating. You won't like, nothing will change in your life, but everything will suddenly, you'll be 45 and you can't sleep suddenly it'll be 48 and you'll have bad anxiety suddenly you're fine. You're depressed out of nowhere, hypervigilant, anger, outbursts. 

And I'm like, why would I do that? Like, I'm 32. Like why would that pulley girl please? You know? And, and, and now, and now being 44 D you know, the couple days before my period starts, when all my hormones go down, I don't sleep. I know my know my periods. It's a signal to me like, Hey, your periods coming, which is also concerning, because I know as I get more into perimenopause that could get worse. Right? 

But our hormones are our cyclical. Hormones is, is females. We are on a rollercoaster, but it's supposed to be a very set rollercoaster. It's not supposed to change. So we go up and down and then up and down again, and then we get our period and then we start the rollercoaster over. And so what happens though is we get into perimenopause is the roller coaster changes. And it's like getting the rug swept out from under us because the roller coaster, which used to be very predictable and we could, we knew it was coming usually. And we had sip set symptoms. Now maybe we have loop de loops. 

You know, now maybe the hill is four times higher. Therefore the drop is four times lower. And this, this crazy roller coaster of hormones going up and down messes with our brain hormones, our brain hormones, or things like serotonin, which is what antidepressants work on GABA, which are what anti-anxiety is work on. We have dopamine, which has a lot to do with her motivation or desire. You know, we've glutamate, which is what we call excitatory, turns things on, but too much is toxic. 

And they absolutely react to our female hormones, estrogen and progesterone. And so as women start to go through perimenopause and the roller coaster shifts, they start to notice, especially, especially if they are already prone to low grade or even high grade anxiety and depression. I see it gets amplified. It's like a Bullhorn gets put right up to them, the anxiety, which they thought they had under control, or just hit hit. Sometimes all of a sudden becomes a 10 out of 10, the depression that they thought they had pretty well under control. 

All of a sudden becomes a tenant 10 because of the effect of estrogen and progesterone on the brain. And so much like you, it's really important to me to tell that, to warn right. To warn women. You're not crazy. You're like, there's things you can do. It's it's, there's nothing you did. There's nothing you did. It is a, it is, it's not fair, but it's common. And it's, peri-menopause heading into, into menopause. I don't know who designed it, you know, like I would like to have a word with the originator by you. 

And I have a few things to say to that person, like, what were you thinking? Right. Like the mood swings, like besides, you know, there's a lot of women in hot flashes, night sweats. And like, I walked into a room and I can't remember. And I used to be so sharp and I'm not sharp anymore. And I go from crying to angry and you know, it's like, and I joints hurt and I vaginal dryness and like, what is this? And so that, that is, that is perimenopause and it's real. And it's, and, and if your practitioner doesn't know about it, or doesn't talk to you about it, find a new practitioner. 

Cause it is like in your case, it could be life-changing. So seek the help that you need. 

Speaker 0 (15m 23s): That's right. And doctors, you know, as a medical doctor, we're just trained to do the harm, the blood test 

Speaker 1 (15m 30s): Or not, or not. That's the crazy not to be like I have, I had a lot of, I've had a lot of women over the years say I went to my doctor. I told them, I felt hormonal. I don't know what that means. I just know something's wrong. So I'm blaming my hormones. And my doctor said to me, well, your hormones change every month. So throughout like, it's a rollercoaster. So the changes. So I'm not going to test you. Here's an antidepressant or I'm not going to test you. What do you expect? You've got two kids under the age of five and you're running a business. You know, I'm not going to test you. 

Like, this is just what happens. So try to get more sleep and good luck. And I just think all that's crap. So it is, 

Speaker 0 (16m 9s): Yeah, it totally, I mean, that's what happened to me, you know, here's an antidepressant, you're depressed. Take it, take some sleeping tablets. And that's all I got and he didn't check my hormones. And you know, in all fairness, the medical profession really isn't taught to check the right hormones. 

Speaker 1 (16m 27s): No, no. And well, I mean, you're, you were, do, you know, that's, that's your, that was your career. But like, you know, that you're taught, it's more of an acute care, right? You have, you have 10 minutes or less with the person in front of you. And so you just want to make sure that they're going to be, you can treat them and street them and they're going to probably be okay and hopefully be okay, and then move on to the next patient because you have 30 people to see in a day. So it's tough to wrap your head around or, or, or start to talk to somebody in depth about like, look, this is called peri-menopause and I'm going to sit down and explain it to you. 

We're going to test your hormones. We're going to work through it. It's unfortunately, a lot of doctors just don't even have time for that. 

Speaker 0 (17m 7s): No, they don't. And they don't even know what perimenopause is. Would you want to give us a definition of peri-menopause? So they're already doctors listening. 

Speaker 1 (17m 16s): They will learn it. So I had a good colleague of mine in, in Northern California sent me the funniest messages a couple of years ago. She said my patient who's 50. Just got back from her OB GYN, who is a female OB GYN, who said, perimenopause doesn't exist. There's no such thing. And all women go through menopause at 52 years old, give or take a year. And that's that. And we were just hysterically laughed. We thought that was the funniest thing, because I thought this is a trained OB GYN, who is female herself. 

Wow. Completely blew off the entire doesn't exist. Not real in wait till you're 52. It'll stop girl, what are you serious? And this is what's wrong with the education. So perimenopause is a transitional state you go through. So we went through puberty and our teenage years to bring us in, to start our period, develop our breasts, you know, change our body shape, do all the things. Then as we get older, we have to back out of it. 

They reverse puberty. It's called peri-menopause. And it's this transitional state that often hits women between their forties and fifties, where the things are not as consistent as they used to be. So their cycles aren't as regular. They maybe they are skipped cycles. Maybe they come every two weeks, their symptoms change. So instead of PMs, now they're getting hot flashes and night sweats. Now they're getting, you know, they can't remember. They're having to create lists. Their mood may be is changing. Their libido may be, is changing. Their skin is changing the number of women who tell me, why am I developing adult acne at 50? 

This is ridiculous. I'm like, cause it's reverse puberty. You had it. Come in. Sadly, we're going to have it in some instances going out. And so it's this transition state until you hit, what's called menopause menopause. The true definition of menopause is you don't have a period for 12 solid months. On the 13th month, you were considered menopausal. You can still have symptoms. You can still be hot flashy night, sweaty, angry, anxious, dry. 

But if you don't have a period you're considered, you're considered menopausal and it's all around. It's a reproductive thing. People say, why, why don't we like, what's the point? And it's because puberty puts you into reproduction. Whether you want to reproduce or not. It's doesn't matter. I don't, I never, I didn't reproduce. I'm not looking to get pregnant, but my body being, you know, XX, that's what I do is like every month that's with my ovaries and brain and uterus prepare for, so purity puts us in a reproduction. 

Perimenopause is to start to come out of reproduction. Menopause is we're completely out of reproduction. Unfortunately, though, due to a number of reasons, we have crazy, crazy symptoms. A lot of the time if left unchecked and that's where the struggle is. And how early have you seen women go start perimenopause. So they call it early menopause if it starts before 39 years old. So there's a lot of debate right now is to women in their thirties, especially their late thirties are already starting the process. 

They just don't realize it yet. But then it, it really, I find and you probably do too. It depends on like family history. If you know it. So like if your moms and aunts and grandmas like fail, went through menopause late in their fifties. My mom went through menopause in her fifties. Really good chance. I am as well. Whereas I have other friends in like everybody, all the aunties mom, right? The oldest, like everyone went through at 45. So my kids are like, great. Okay. And so, so, so I, but technically once you hit 40, you know, it's all, it's all fair game. 

You could start to go through peri-menopause however, I will say this. It's not a death sentence and it's not doom because a lot of things affect it. So for example, if you are in now is a perfect example. If you're super stressed out, that's going to amplify the bad symptoms. So you might think, oh my gosh, I'm 42. I have all these symptoms. You're talking about you guys at this. I can't believe I'm so young. And peri-menopause, it could be the fact that we're in a pandemic and it massive stress. 

And it's worsening the situation. If we weren't in a pandemic, you might not be having these crazy symptoms. They may wait for several years. So there are things that can absolutely amplify in a negative way. The things that you eat, the way that you do or don't exercise how you do or don't sleep. The chemicals that you're around, the relationships that you have, all of these affect how your perimenopause is. So I always tell women, I want you to slide or glide into it. I don't want you to slam into it. 

We're trying to avoid the slamming when it comes to this transition, 

Speaker 0 (22m 12s): Oh, the world would know about this. So many women would not be put on antidepressant. 

Speaker 1 (22m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. I read it. I read a statistic and you probably have to that. And it was a tongue in cheek. A woman wrote this article. I wish I could give her credit. I would, if I can remember it, it was an article she wrote. And she said, I bet. I bet that if men are partners, if partners understood perimenopause and the transition, there'd be a lot less divorces. There'd be a lot less breakups. So to speak. Because in this transition time 

Speaker 0 (22m 48s): Calling all women, are you feeling depressed, anxious, lacking in energy, having problems sleeping all night long, waking up with brain fog, or maybe even hopelessness. And you know that there is a better you that wants to come out. Hello, it's me, Dr. Isabel. And wow. If any of this sounds like you, I get you. I have been in this place and I really wish someone who really knew what I was going through would have been there to help me through to the other side of that deep dark place. 

That's why I started the shame-free anxiety and depression community for women only. It's a free and private Facebook group. Would you like weekly coaching to help you become your best self? And how about inspired and encouraged by other women in the community? We now know that we grow better in community and not alone. The link is in the podcast description, or you can search in Facebook for the shame-free anxiety and depression community for women. 

It's free, it's private and it's safe. I hope to see you there soon and now back to the podcast, 

Speaker 1 (24m 16s): But then they don't come out of puberty. Whereas we do. And so I've even, I explained to my husband all the time, my poor husband, who's not medical at all, but 

Speaker 0 (24m 28s): Right. 

Speaker 1 (24m 28s): Like they're experts now. And I'm like, Hey, like you have to under like, this is what can happen. I'm doing the best I can. I'm in the field. I'm trying really hard. But you know, as I in, you know, over the course of the next 10 years, it's possible, I might pop off probably hormonal. Love me anyway. Don't 

Speaker 0 (24m 48s): Take it seriously. 

Speaker 1 (24m 50s): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There are 

Speaker 0 (24m 52s): Marriages that are ended because of hormone problems. 

Speaker 1 (24m 56s): Yeah. And I had patients, I'm sure you did too. Who came, you know, they were in their fifties or even sixties who look back and went, dang. I wish I knew. I w I think we could have avoided it avoided a divorce, I think. And I'm not, I don't mean to, I don't mean like, like give the blame all to the woman at all, but I think it just amplifies stuff you already had in your relationship when you're not, when you're on a roller coaster, that completely changes. And you already have some stuff in your marriage, like our relationship, like, wow, that just makes it all worse. 

And especially because so many women are just like, here's an antidepressant or Hey, good luck. Or, you know, I don't know what to tell you. Like they just get blown off and it's so not fair if they didn't get blown off, if they got educated, if they got help. Yeah. It would think it would just help 

Speaker 0 (25m 43s): A lot. And that's what we're doing. Yeah. That's what we're doing. I remember listening to one of your interviews, or you were teaching me on a webinar that you had been working with your doctor and about the cold showers you were doing the cold shower. Cause I just started like last month, I'm up to a minute and a half right now, but I just I'm doing it for fat Brittany, because I just want to make sure I stay under 25% body fat for the rest of my life because it increases our risk of breast cancer and a whole lot of other stuff. 

So I learned, you know, about culture. Tell me, how are you doing with your cold showers? And are you still doing home? How long are you doing it for? 

Speaker 1 (26m 24s): So in 2020, I decided I wanted to be more resilient. So cold showers serve one of two purposes. One is to improve resiliency, reduce inflammation. It does a number of like positive health immune things. On the flip side, if you allow a cold shot, anything cold, if you get the shiver response, if you start to shiver, then that activates what's called our brown fat. So we have a lot of white fat, but it's our brown fat that help they can help significantly with, with burning, so to speak Thermo regulation and, and, and burning of calories and energy expenditure to get technical. 

So when you shiver, you rely on your brown fat to keep you warm. But that, and then in the process helps with weight loss. So for people who are listening and very cold environments that are like, heck yeah, I shiver all the time. This is what you're doing. If you resist the shiver, if you stand in the cold water and resist the shiver and do the breathing thing, then you go the other way, you do the resilience thing. So I was doing it for the resilience thing. So I got, I, I read the account of a woman who was also looking for resilience. 

And she said, I got in the shower, did my shower. And then I gradually turned it to cold cooler, and then eventually cold water and, and stayed in there to suppress the shiver and get more resilient. And I thought it was the dead of summer, which is really helpful cause it was hot out. So I thought I'm just going to get in cold water. Like I've done it before we learn about it. Naturopathic medical school, I've totally done cold showers off and on my whole life. So I thought I'm going to do it one song. So I'd play a song and I would get right. I would just March myself right in the cold shower. 

And it was wonderful. And I did it all the way through about, to probably about Christmas of 2020. And then I decided I needed a little more warmth in my life. And then I just ended in cold showers. So now I predominantly just end in cold shower. So I start out hot and then do the last bit cold. Yeah. That's what I do. How long do you stay in the cold? It varies on how much time I have available. So sometimes it also depends what I'm doing. And so it's, so it can be three minutes, you know? 

Wow. 30 seconds because that's literally all I have. I'm running late by my own fault. So yeah. And I wash my face in cold water. Like I use warm water initially to open pores, but then rinse with a cold cause it's the same hot and cold water for, for if everyone's like, you sound crazy. Why would I do that? So hot and cold water makes your blood vessels and your, your lymphatic system. It basically makes them expand. Right? Hot opens things and then cold constricts. So it's like having, it's like improving the pump system through your body and improving circulation and getting things moving. 

And so it's a nice, like, you definitely feel revived revitalized after the end and you got everything moving and turning and circulating. So you improve any kind of stagnation. So if you have stagnation in your lymphatic system situation in your skin stagnation, anywhere that hot and cold alternating can be helpful. I mean, think about it. Sports people use it all the time that you, you, you know, hurt your knee. What do you do? You put it all the time. You didn't put a hot or cold depending on what your doctor tells you. When, how far you get a big bruise, you know, like you might alternate hot and cold depending on what you're doing. 

And so it's just whole body that I was using it for. So as long as you're getting the shiver response, if you, 

Speaker 0 (29m 53s): But then I started breathing, but then I just slowed down my breathing. Just, just so that, okay, I love this. This is good. I get to get a cold shower. You know, the whole, oh, I love this. This is great. And then believe it or not, by the end of it, I'm actually hot 

Speaker 1 (30m 13s): By the end of it. I loved it. So it took me 30 seconds to adjust. I was doing it all last year. It took me exactly about 30 seconds to adjust. Once I hit the 30, if I could get in there for 30 solid seconds. And then it didn't bother me at all. It could be as cold as cold could be. And I didn't notice it. It felt great or the hair was better. I had so many people write me and say, oh my gosh, I washed my hair and condition my hair in cold water. It made a difference in my, in my hair strands skin. I had a lot of people who, people, you know, people were joining me last summer and they were like, wow, my skin has gotten better. 

I just, I just feel better. My focus is better. Like I don't need as much caffeine. And it's amazing what people would write when they were doing it. 

Speaker 0 (30m 53s): Well, thank you for turning me onto that. And I was like, so yeah, I feel very hot at the end. So it must be on burning that fat I have. 

Speaker 1 (31m 2s): So that's the goal 

Speaker 0 (31m 6s): I've been, have you heard of Dr. Dale Bredesen? He wrote the end of Alzheimer's. Yeah. I've, I've been trained. I'm a Recode 2.0 practitioner. Wonderful. In that functional medicine practice. And we talk a lot about women. Unfortunately, two thirds of the, of the people with Alzheimer's are women. And if you know the protocol, one of the, one of the areas, the type is hormones. Carrie. It's amazing. 

It's amazing how many women I do the test, the Dutch test. Hey, I do the Dutch test on mento. Cause of course. 

Speaker 1 (31m 43s): Yep. Yep. 

Speaker 0 (31m 44s): And thank you so much for teaching me how to understand all that. And the practitioners at Dutch test and Carrie, it's so sad to see how many women have like no estrogen, no progesterone. Their dag is just flat and, and doctors don't realize, okay, you're over greater than 65. We're not going to give you any hormones. 

Speaker 1 (32m 9s): Or even, even at a younger age, they could be 45. They could be 55 that study that came out years ago. You know, the women's health initiative is, is what really kicked off. The estrogen is evil and women should just suffer. And ultimately it was like, don't go on any kind of hormones. Hormones are bad period. And since that time and, and everyone listened. I mean, how could you not? Right? Like the study said, it caused breast cancer and it caused stroke and it causes all sorts of heart or a brain issues. 

And so everyone stopped, came to a screeching halt when it came to taking their hormones. And since that time, wow, have we come a long way? A lot of retraction has happened. A lot of followup studies to say like, well, that was bogus. You stupid study. You know, that's not true at all. There's, there's a doctor Dr. Doreen Saltiel and she's done to menopausal hormone therapy. So MHT webinars that I've watched where she literally comes through all the literature. I know her she's she's, she's, she's, she's an MD lawyers. 

She's an interventional cardiologist. And I she's lit. She's like, I don't have a, I don't have a horse in the race. I'm just combing through the literature to see what's the truth from a lawyer point of view, as a, as an MD. And I just love listening to her because she's no BS. She breaks everything down like a lawyer would. And she's an is, is now as long as you're doing follow-up work. Right. And as long as you don't have major risk factors, she's a fan of hormones. I mean, she's like, it protects your skin. It protects your heart, your brain flee your brain, right? 

Like it just helps so many aspects. Their marriage there's so much research out there on when women become menopausal. How like all our protective effects come to a screeching halt. There's all this research about like males, this and males that even I've been reading about, like bone health. I asked your process, bone, muscle strength, how women deposit fat, you know, estrogen makes, is pear shaped. And then as we get menopausal, we switch and become more glucose, insulin problematic. 

Can we get apple-shaped? And it's so it's like our bone health, our muscle strength, our shape, all of it like flips in menopause because we lose out on these hormones. And it's really sad to me that it's not talked about or that old study is still quoted as the Bible of, well, I don't do hormones because it causes cancer. And I want everyone to listen and listening to know it's not estrogen that causes cancer. 

Everyone's no, it's not the cancer. It's the it's, it's, it's what your, how your body is handling the estrogen and everything else. I read this quote, that's like cancer. The formation of cancer is an unfortunate sort of conglomeration of how you process your hormones, right? Toxicity in the world and genetics. So you could have next to zero estrogen. But if you are set up to be a cancer maker, you can still get cancer. 

You, you know, it's just, it's just so unfortunate. And so, but as you know, like there's tests to do, and there's things we can help to be preventative, minimize the risk. We can't zero risk, but minimize the risk. And quite honestly, given the amount of estrogen, like chemicals in the environment, that's not hardly ever talked about in camp. It's getting more and more research now, for sure. You know, think everything from plastics, ballots and synthetic fragrances think about candles. 

I mean, even just, you know, people have pumpkin spice candles this time of year and they're burning it or they're setting it out so you can smell it. They have all the plugins around their house and they plugins in their car. That's estrogen like, so it's turning on your estrogen receptors. It's affecting your endocrine system, your system of hormones, they're called endocrine disrupting hormones. So we don't want that system disrupted anymore. Stop disrupting it, 

Speaker 0 (36m 25s): Stop it, stop it, everybody. 

Speaker 1 (36m 27s): It's a lot more global than just micro focusing in and saying, estrogen is bad. Don't be on it. It's like, maybe we should find out why the body is taking estrogen and doing what it does with it. Let's step that step back. 

Speaker 0 (36m 42s): Very good, good point. That's a very holistic point. I was looking at it. Let's talk about mold, mold and the brain. I know, I know when I'm taking care of my pain, my peeps and doing the protocol, the Recode protocol, one of the other areas is toxins. You know, that can cause us to get dementia and cognitive decline in early Alzheimer's and mold is one of the biotoxins. Can you talk to us about how mold affects actually disrupts our hormones? 

Speaker 1 (37m 13s): Yeah. Oh my gosh. So mold is very inflammatory. So anything by inflammatory, I mean that, it turns on our immune system. I mean, he's just a mess and deal with it. Mold comes in for whatever reason. And our immune system is like, ah, crap. I don't like you let's go after you. And so it creates this inflamed state, get, you know, alarms, firetrucks, everything sound, you'll get, get them old, get them old. And so when you are in this chronic inflamed state, because the brain, the brains, the brain's primary job in life is to protect you. 

It's not to make you happy. It's to protect you. And if you are a female it's to protect you so that you have the best chances of getting pregnant, should you want to, so now you have mold in the system. Mold is set off all the alarms, your immune system is having to chronically go after it. So the brain doesn't feel protected. It doesn't feel safe and it's going to affect the way that you do or don't make hormones. And so, so many men and women who are dealing with mold report, a lot of hormonal disruption, whether it's their thyroid, their cortisol, their testosterone, their estrogen and progesterone, it's sort of across the board that mold can really just wreck it. 

Speaker 0 (38m 30s): And it does. And you really, you really can't, it's really hard to Oregon to fix the hormones until the molds removed. I mean, 

Speaker 1 (38m 40s): Yeah. And everybody wants to do 

Speaker 0 (38m 41s): CPR. You can do CPR to the hormones, but you gotta, I mean, you got to get rid of the mold and getting rid of the mold. Oh my gosh. Is that, 

Speaker 1 (38m 51s): That's all, that's a big deal. And I don't think it's it's, it's not fair again. It's not fair or fun, but yes it is. It's can be very challenging. It can be very long, especially if you, some people realize 10 years later. Oh my gosh. I've been living in a moldy house for 10 years. What's 10 years of mold accumulation. You've got to work on in your body. Right. And, or sometimes even longer. I mean, I've had people that are like, whew. I was raised in this house. I live in this house and I did not realize 30 years later, I am completely afflicted by mold. 

And so don't think it's an overnight, don't think it's a, you know, a quick tea, a cold shower. That's kinda 

Speaker 0 (39m 30s): Just magic. I read 

Speaker 1 (39m 31s): It. Yeah. We have to really help with the whole process of one getting rid of it. Two, detoxifying it. And then three with your immune system, like with tell your immune system and the brain like, okay, like it's gone now. Hopefully let's calm down. So it's a very multi-step process. 

Speaker 0 (39m 52s): It is a, multi-step not fair. 

Speaker 1 (39m 54s): It's not fair at all. Trust me. I know. It's not fair. Have 

Speaker 0 (39m 57s): You gone through mold? Have you 

Speaker 1 (39m 59s): Been through Nope. Mold is not. I'm more of a histamine person as opposed to a mold. A mold has not affected me. Knock on wood. 

Speaker 0 (40m 9s): Yes. And you probably, you probably won't have any mold in Phoenix, Arizona either. 

Speaker 1 (40m 14s): That's a good question. I actually I've been told both ways. I have been told that there is quite a bit of mold and Phoenix. And then I have been because of the stucco homes, the way the homes are built there, the style of home that it tends to trap Molden. And then I've been told the opposite because of that extreme heat. That, but it's not wet unless it's monsoon season, but there's not a lot of mold. So I don't it's, I don't know. But I live in the Pacific Northwest. It rains off. I feel like if anyone's gonna be mold it's it's up here. 

Speaker 0 (40m 46s): I wanted to ask you while we're landing this plane. So what would you say, I'm going to ask you two questions. What would you say welcome to your forties? And then what would you say welcome to your fifties? I know you're not 50 yet, but you will one of these days. 

Speaker 1 (41m 3s): Yep. I will. In six years, I will be so welcome to your forties. This is the, you can't get away with what you could get away with when you were younger. That's what I taught. When you, you know, I've had more women say to me, I've changed nothing. I didn't change my diet, my lifestyle, my habits, nothing. And everything changed. I'm like welcome to your forties. Be prepared to make some changes. And now was the time. The best time to start to take care of yourself for perimenopause is in your thirties. But if you're already in your forties and the best time is yesterday. 

So just start and buy, take care of yourself. I mean, you were backing out of puberty. Remember how intense and how stressful and how long puberty took your you're backing out of it. So you are honestly going to have to rest more. You're going to have to say no more. You're going to have to be stronger in your boundaries and what you do for your boundaries. You're not going to be able to get away with the amount of alcohol you drank or the amount of carbohydrates you ate, or the amount of sugar. And I don't mean that as like a shaming sort of thing. 

I mean, literally as you go through perimenopause, the way you process stuff, changes, your liver changes how you handle blood sugar changes. It's not fair. It's not fun. It is part of the peri-menopausal process. And so how you exercise may have to change. If you are, you know, all out, CrossFitter spin bike, you know, you just, you know, you run fast, run hard, go for it. That might be too much. You may have to find yourself cutting back because it's too inflammatory. 

It's too much too stressful as you're going through this, this change. So in your forties, my like, if you boil it down, it's take care of yourself. But no joke, like put yourself first, not just in the top five of your family, but like first, because otherwise you're going to be pouring from an empty cup very quickly as you found out, but in your fifties, because in your fifties, depending on when you go through menopause, cause some women go in forties and some women go in their fifties. 

So when you're in your fifties, it's even more important because we're thinking about heart health and bone health and brain health and skin health and longevity at that point. And when you get in your fifties and you really are staring menopause in the face, and I don't want you to have a broken bone or a fracture, and I don't want you to get, you know, start to develop dementia like symptoms. And I surely don't want you to have to go on blood pressure medication and, and suddenly have to get some cardiovascular workup if we can avoid it. So it's, I want to teach women that we have to take this very seriously because it's coming and there are very small percent of women that God bless them do glide naturally through menopause. 

I mean, I've went either they're in denial or they just have a fantastic, amazing genes. We need to bottle up and sell, but I have it, a few women go, I've never had a hot flash. Like my menopause is pretty easy, you know, like, right, wonderful. Not talking to you. Majority, majority of women are going to experience something at some point. And I just want them eyes wide open of, oh, this is what Isabella and Carrie were talking about. Okay. And it may come and go. You may get it for a week and it goes away. You may get hot flashes for a month and it goes away or you may get them. 

And if you don't do anything about it, they don't go away. So just in no, there's a lot out there. There's a lot of education. There's a lot of resources like you and me, a lot out there to help guide you. And if you have a practitioner who doesn't believe you and doesn't understand perimenopause and menopause, if you like them, keep them for the acute stuff and find another practitioner who understands hormones. Totally fine. It's okay to have multiple people in your medical team. 

Speaker 0 (44m 49s): Absolutely, absolutely. Cause you're the CEO of 

Speaker 1 (44m 52s): Your health a hundred percent, 

Speaker 0 (44m 54s): You know? And when you see the doctor, make sure that doctor understands bioidentical hormones. You don't want to be placed on Provera, which is a synthetic progesterone. And that is one of the big causes of breasts. 

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): And that came out in that study, that magi trial that did that. Foreshore has been shown that the Provera addition is the big problem. 

Speaker 0 (45m 15s): Yeah. And just make sure the doctor understands bio-identical hormones. And if not, then seek the right doctor. Yes. 

Speaker 1 (45m 25s): And there's great options. I had somebody just because it's bio-identical, it doesn't necessarily have to be compounded. So we, we have pharmacies, we have a typical pharmacy and then we have what are called compounding pharmacies and compounding pharmacies, make it up for you as opposed to it's off the shelf. You know, you just go buy it off the shelf. So there are some great prescription bio-identical right. There's the patch. I, and I have women who get very upset, you know, they're like, oh, my doctor prescribed the patch. 

I had to pick it up at my pharmacy, Walgreens Rite aid. And they freak out it's that must not be biodentical. I mean, no, it is. It is. 

Speaker 0 (46m 4s): I use it. I use the 

Speaker 1 (46m 6s): Right. And there's a progesterone. It's called Prometrium then I'm like, no, no, no. It is that one. That Prometrium is good. That's a good one. It has peanut oil in it. So be careful if you have a peanut allergy, but there are, you don't necessarily have to get a compounded, but you can. So there's great options out there. 

Speaker 0 (46m 22s): And down here in New Zealand and Australia, the bioidentical progesterone is called you trow. Just you try Justin. So you can use that. And yes, it's a little more expensive, but Hey, you're worth that late. 

Speaker 1 (46m 39s): Remember, you're going to put yourself as number one now, not your it's not like in the top group. You're like, you're at the top of the group at this point. You're a bit way above the dog and the kid, you know the partner because 

Speaker 0 (46m 49s): 'cause, I'm telling you if mom's not good or the wife's not good, life will not be good for anybody. You just can't help it. You're you're you try as much as you can. But yeah, 

Speaker 1 (47m 3s): But like you said, in the beginning, which I loved as humans, not even just as doctors, as humans, we are taught to push and persevere, right? Like we are taught, just burn the candle at both ends. It's fine. And you will find when you hit your forties and fifties, you can not. And nowadays, a lot of people are finding, they can't in their thirties. They're like my forties. I can't even do it at 35. Like I can't burn the candle at both ends 35. I'm like you better clean that up. Find an expert, get some education. Because when you do hit your forties, it was good. 

It might, it might be rough. And I don't want it to be rough. I want it to be smooth for you. 

Speaker 0 (47m 41s): We'd love for it to be smooth for all of you, ladies, 

Speaker 1 (47m 45s): You and I had a magic pill. We would, we would just airdrop it across the world. We would just put it in the water supply. We're not holding anything back. People ask me, well, what's the magic pill. The parent, if I swear, if I had like one pill, I would just give it to everyone. I'd give it away. I would make no money on it because just be an easier, 

Speaker 0 (48m 6s): Everybody would be better. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody would be better. What, what three action steps. Before we end, what three action steps would you like to give the listener so that they can start winning right away? I know you've given a lot, but three big capacitors. 

Speaker 1 (48m 26s): One of my, my very fruit number one and I have it on the sign behind me is healing happens at joy, but says healing happens at joy. So when I said earlier, the brain its main job is to protect you. Not to make you happy. That means you have to go find happiness. So when you are in a not safe, I don't feel protected. State of mind when you're fight or flight, what helps get you out of fight or flight? And what helps ground you is when you are playing, when you are joyful, when you're on your community. And so I know it's a little tough right now, but do what you can to find real laughter, to find joy, to, to find your community. 

Because then that helps tell the brain I'm okay. Like I feel safe. And even if it's for five minutes, cause you're looking at the funniest memes that your sister sent you that counts every little bit helps. Don't think you have to find joy all freaking day. If it's a little bursts throughout the day makes a big difference. So healing happens at joy. It helps push you out of the fight or flight into the calmer rest, digest repair part of your body. Number two, sleep fixes everything. So definitely seek help. 

Yeah. If you're not sleeping, 

Speaker 0 (49m 38s): I love sleep. If I didn't sleep, I would not be. 

Speaker 1 (49m 44s): Yes it take it seriously. Get off your phones and screens before bed. If you feel like you need to be in bed by eight 30 night, do it. It's okay. You're an adult. It doesn't matter what you know, like go to bed when you need to go to bed and, and seek help. If you're not sleeping, don't be afraid to seek help. Don't think you're going to outgrow it. Or it's just a phase because as you are in your forties and fifties, we want you to take sleep very seriously. You repair is a human, you repair in your sleep, your brain detoxes in your sleep, not in the day at night when you sleep or if you're a night shift worker, it's when you sleep. 

So sleep. So that's number two. And then the, the third thing and I, and I've already said is you're going to start using the word no where no, thank you. More and more and more. You're going to set boundaries. Cause it was, is, is busy. Go get her women were usually like, sure I can do that. Not a problem. I'll put that on my plate. I'll hit, you know what? I'll just do it because it'll get done, right? Like just let me handle it. Right. Nope. Nope. And it's going to be real hard for a lot of women, but you're going to say no or no thank you or not at this time more. 

And because you're going to open more space on your plate, you're going to open more space in your, your journal. And you're in your calendar, your diary because, because you need it, you need the breathing room. As you hit your forties and fifties, you need to rest when you need to rest and you need to let the body know that you feel safe and it's just going to feel good when you realize like you have some more breathing room in your schedule and you're not always going 10 at a 10 and super stressed out and you know, burning the candle at both ends. That's not going to do your hormones any good. 

So the third actionable thing is you're going to start saying no, no thank you. Not at this time more often. 

Speaker 0 (51m 32s): Beautiful. I love it. I will take, I'll take that prescription. 

Speaker 1 (51m 38s): I'm here. I mean, I'm not saying I'm the greatest at it, but I I'm trying. I'm definitely trying to lot. I'm not trying, I am making it a conscious effort to say no to more things or schedule more buffer into my day so that I'm not back to back to back to back to back that I do have 30 minutes here, an hour here or 15 minutes here for breathing room. And it's made a big difference every time I do it. I'm happier. 

Speaker 0 (52m 3s): I'm so glad that you're doing this in your forties. 

Speaker 1 (52m 6s): Well, we don't have a choice. Do we? 

Speaker 0 (52m 9s): I'm just, I congratulate you for doing it now in your forties because your fifties will be easier. Your sixties and gosh, what's it going to be like when we're a hundred, could you imagine you and I I'll be a hundred, you'll be 90 and we'll go 

Speaker 1 (52m 27s): 'cause our brains will be sharp because we'll have taken all our own advice, right? Yeah. Right. 

Speaker 0 (52m 31s): Right now, Carrie, where can everybody find you? 

Speaker 1 (52m 34s): Instagram is where I love to hang out the most. I am at Dr. To Carrie Jones. I do a lot of education. It's all free on Instagram, all around hormones, pretty much estrogen progesterone and the adrenal glands, cortisol, DHA, testosterone. So that's where I hang out the most. And then at Dutch, the test, we talked about Dutch, every educational thing on their webinars, podcasts. Like this one will be on there. Every, you can watch whatever you want to watch and learn whatever you want to learn. 

We just put it up there for people. 

Speaker 0 (53m 9s): Thank you. And this will, all those links will be in the show notes. All right. Well, I hope you're going to go have a little rest now. 

Speaker 1 (53m 17s): Yes. Get a snack my afternoon, afternoon snack. 

Speaker 0 (53m 22s): And I'm going to go for an hour, walk all by myself and then I'm going to call my mom and then I'm going to go for another hour, walk with my girlfriend. And that takes me. Yeah, that's my two hour present. And then, and then it's full on, you know how it goes? 

Speaker 1 (53m 37s): My husband texted me. We both worked from home and he texted me that the dog is dying of neglect. Our dog is the most spoiled dog in the whole world. He said the dog is dying of neglect. So we will take the dog for a walk. 

Speaker 0 (53m 50s): Gotcha. All right. Well thank you so much. Remain unstoppable. You're doing great work and helping millions of people. Thank you so much for, for your wonderful work. Oh, you too. Thank you, Isabelle. 

Speaker 3 (54m 6s): Hello, chef Michael here. If you enjoy today's episode, we would love it. If you subscribe to the podcast and left us a review.